DuckSouth.com

bill, dont you go showing no logic you hear! travis

Talk about not posting!! Where you been Travis? Maybe you've gone british and are busy picking up 3 out of 4 bumpers for Rowdy??

Man I been working my fatazz off. Knocking back some killer cheese, but just ready to sit on couch for an hour before going to bed every night. trying to get my crap together to start training again, but been too tired to make a serious effort. But imagine it wont take but a return to 60 degrees to make me get going! travis

You got any new young dawgs coming along? Have you tamed your Auggie pup?

Who's circling the wagons. Train how you want and I'll train how I want. I just want to enjoy my dogs. I don't have to make a competition out of it.

DavidR,

I will be picking up a pup from Wildrose. It is a male out of Bob x Kela born Feb. 3rd.

I never mentioned competetion.. you can relax. I simply stated I can teach a dog to sit and I can sit while my ducks get picked up. Why so jittery, all that wagon dust in yur mouth? bwhahaha.

Bill, my little nasty dog went to alabama. She might come back here to finish her ch, or her new owner might do it himself. Shes in a good home, and picked up a bunch of birds. I had a puppy to start this year, but we had to put him down the other day. Another reason i aint been talking dogs much I guess. I kept Da Juice, but now Im wondering if that was right. He got to hunt maybe 5 or 6 times this year, the old man went the rest of the time. Sure was sad to leave anybody at home... im thinking I really dont need 2 dogs of my own. If he stays, Ill finish him out and he'll heopfully be ready for GA this fall. Char has been back home at my moms since 1 hour and 20 minutes after her hr title... called andsaid come get your trophy,ribbons and devil dog. Shes coming back in next week or two for a short time, be back after daylite savings to get finished out for this fall. Dunno if she'll have the control for the GA trip. My moms other dog scream (Da juices sister) is coming this summer, she'll hr this fall. And steve has a dog Im gonna take while hes gone to alaska this summer hopefully be rolling by this fall. Rowdy is making the alaska trip with steve, so he'll be gone for 3 months... I wont nessessarily miss steve during that time, but Ill sure miss rowdy. Hes never been gone longer than the 8 or 9 days I lent him to glenn when chipper got hurt and he was guiding that winter... 3 months will be tough. Lots of work betwen now and fall, thats for sure. travis

Sorry to hear about the pup-thats tough. I know what you mean about Char. Her brother is doing very well-in training. I don't trust him enough to go to the line with him yet.....but he can sure kick booty at a training day. Trainings all he gets for now, breakin little "illegitimate child"

Sounds like you'll have some new young dawgs for the fall games. Rowdy can show 'em how to do it.

Bill

I haven't seen Kela work but I have hunted over Bob many times. Good hard running dog. I know you will enjoy your pup. I will be going with Mike up to Indiana the weekend before that to do a show. I train out there just about every day, great bunch of folks.


Goosey.....sounds like we have similar dogs.....mine sit, retrieve, etc.....even take a crap after they eat.

Yeah but mine do other kewl stuff beside that bro! bwhahahahaha. Similar dogs??? you been in the snow too long. travis

Back to Lardy though.......I think it says something when he can take American dogs and actually be competitive at the British game on their turf.............I would like to see the reverse of that happen.

Does anyone know where to find the article on the UK test that Lardy participated in back last year? I would like to read it.

here's a link to a few post on it.

http://retrievertraining.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4391&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gun+dog+team&start=15

I think you'll find lardy could probably take his dogs and be competative at any game dogs can play. Agility.. flyball... search and rescue, puppy bowl... Take one of the most talented trainers of all time and some of the most talented dogs on earth, and your impressed they can pick up bumpers and sit in another country? cmon man, it aint that big a deal. And you'll never see a brit breeder and trainer do the inverse, as long as they are getting 1200 bucks for a puppy and 700 bucks a month for their dogs to have birds picked up for them by the trainers. They're getting top notch money on both ends, for very little product... and the people paying it are tickled to death. I gots no problem with it, till they try to tell me its better. It might be better for their intended market than what they have had in the past, buts thats only because they aint had nothing to begin with. I know what a fully trained dogs is, and I know how easily I can buy a healthy happy puppy for a 1/3 of whats the norm... Im not their intended audience... why try to run field trials to impress me? If their was a britsh lab breeder kicking it in field trials, would I buy one? Would you? The answer is no. So why would they bother?

I'll buy british training methods work for the average person. The average person doesnt train, and their current dog wont go get ducks or come back. Think about labs in your neighborhood, more are couch potates than are even the most basic duck hunting dog. That part of all of this is true, the average person is better served with a program that is slow, and puts more emphisis on obedience. But using their games as any kind of a measuring stick is odd at best. Unless you work tower shoots, it resembles nothing in this hemispehere. But then again field trials, or even hunt tests, aren't that much better as a measuring stick to the average person... the average person has already proved he isnt committed enough to have a fully trained dog by evidence of all the couch potatoes in the lab world. The average person hunts 5 or 6 times a year, and if a dog would go get his duck dead in the decoys and bring it back, he'd be tickeled to death. 2 or 3 years in training to accomplish that, is a realstic thing to someone with goals like that. The fact they pay dearly on the front end for a dog to do it, and then dearly for the 'training' it takes to make a dog that natrually sits and deleiver to hand is kinda funny. But it aint my money. And their dog they got thousands in for basic retreving is better than the dog on their couch that aint never seen a duck. So at least they got something.

Sit isn't that hard don't care how much you do it... Sit is simply getting a dog to NOT do something. If field trials changed tommorrow where it was important we had statues sitting out their, the trainers would adapt. Every game has emphisis on particular things, and every game requires a different amount of talent from trainers and their charges. I prefer a game grounded in hunting abilty, with real birds and guns.... its not the most prestidgous, nor the hardest to play, but its a lot of fun and I got one of the most kick booty hunting dogs on the planet as a result. But im realstic enough to know, my path isn't the path for everyone. Look at our own community here... how many people on msducks (and granted, people who check out duck hunting sites on the net are probably more into it than the average duck hunter on the whole), never even check the dog fourm? How many of those people own labs???? and 90% of them thought they would someday have an awesome duck dog when they brought that furry butt home.

David R only made one decent point. His dogs make him happy. Thats the only measure of a dog that matters.

Lots of folks are way happy to pay too much for a puppy, too much for training, and have less to show for it.. if they as customers are happy, then nobody is hurt. Is the best, hell no. But its better than most of those customers have ever had. If they are happy, they keep spending. More power to everyone involved. I guess thats why they circle the wagons... they got an inkling of goings on, and don't like boat rocking. Just don't try to tell an 'informed' person, its better, cause your gonna get laughed at in the face. travis

You bring up some interesting points but you make a lot of assumptions doing so. You have never seen my dogs either one of them I don't know you from adam. I don't play the dog games because quite frankly I don;t have the time nor the desire. I do train my own dogs every day. I train using mainly the british methods but over the years have also incorporated a lot of other drills. It is funny how it always comes down to how the measure of my dog has to be judged by someone standards. My dog will do a lot more than just sit, my dog will do a lot more than just retrieve a duck out of the decoys. I know the difference between a well trained gun dog and a couch potato so don't make me out to be an idiot just because I choose something different than you do. I have no doubt you have a well trained dog, you (or your trainer) have spent a lot of time with the dog and you have achieved a high level with your dog according to the standards by which you have decided to judge your dog. We don't all need to play the HT, or FT game just to have a benchmark that we are working towards with our dogs. It's pretty arrogant to speculate that just because someone does not participate in the dog games that they don't have a well trained dog. Tell me also why the need to drive a dog through the training process at the break neck pace that the average, and I was trying to avoid a generalization here, Lardy, or Graham training program dictates? My current dog was trained without Force fetch, without the E-collar and I can't tell a difference in his behavior over previous dogs that I have FF, and CC, other than the fact that I don't have to be concerned that if the collar is not charged and I can't burn the hell out of him when he decides to blow off a whistle.

You stated "you prefer a game grounded in hunting ability, with real birds and guns" I am glad you have found a game you enjoy to play, just keep in mind that not everyone that owns and trains a dog has the same sentiment. The game I enjoy to play with my dog is called hunting......I thought I was killing real birds, and shooting a real gun.....maybe I wasn't. Have fun with your dog....if you do that...you and I have a lot in common, as for the competition, leave me out.