Bible Question

[cajun squealer]

Maybe it's just me, but considering that the greatest thinkers in the Christian tradition - Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards, and even Wesley, although he's more reluctant about it than the others - believe in predestination, well, I'm inclined to lean that way as well.

Well you're in luck! The Creator is inclined to "lean" that way too!

[greenheadgrimreaper]

When it is all said and done, it is almost impossible to die sinless with no sins left unconfessed. You say your prayer in the moring head to work, see a good looking girl, next thing you know WHAM you get hit and your dead. Now you have died without confessing your sin of adultery.

So are you going to hell? As bad as I hate to do it, I say no. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think, one of Christianities main probelms these days is we think on OUR terms, not God's terms, not The Word's terms. At the end of the day you can know one thing is certain, GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART. Will faith get you to heaven alone? Not if you live a life with no remorse for your actions, not if you live in sin with no desire to better yourself. You have imagined faith then. So yes faith alone will get you into heaven, true faith that is. I am Presbyterian, my denomination believes in predestination. I, however, do not. God created all equal and if there is one thing I have learned from day 1 about my God, regardless of all the skewed interpretations of the Bible, he is a loving, caring God that wants us all in heaven.

God gives you free will, although he knows what path you will choose he leaves it up to you. I know this is a hard concept for some folks to grasp, but He can do that for crying out loud HE CREATED TIME. That is why we cannot grasp the concept of eternity, of where God came from, what was here before, etc... ALL THAT WE KNOW IS CREATED. ALL THAT WE KNOW! Physics, science, chemistry, etc any concept or grasp that we have on anything is made up. Is it just me or is that not MIND BOGGLING?!

Does that not show you God's ultimate power? Does that not show you that while we have a 12 page thread about a simple subject with a no answer, and all sorts of interpretations of scripture that God in the end KNOWS YOUR HEART. If you have evil you will not purge or have no desire to do so, He knows. If you have an addiction to a drug and you have remorse and want badly to get out of the sin He knows, he will deliver. I don't care if every man in history believes in predestination, I don't trust in mortal men, no matter what their status. I trust in what the Holy Spirit speaks to me not what a man before me believed. The world was given to the devil ( I will try to find the verse in Scripture), he is not omnipotent like God, although he has much help, but Satan is the root of evil. You determine your path while on this earth by taking his road or God's road.

If you take God's road, it won't be easy, but faith, love, and true confession of sins will fall into place. Predestination is a man made interpretation of the Bible. I know one thing that is not an interpretation, in the Bible it states that anyone who takes from or adds to The Book is better off not being born. If someone asks me what religion I am associated with, I tell them that my religion is THE BIBLE, not a certain man-made doctrine.

[cwink]

We are having a great Sunday School Class right now. It is called "God is not Great?" It challeges you to consider why you believe in God.

Because your Momma and Daddy told you so,
because a group of people you see on Sunday morning do.

Why do you believe what you believe. Is it because you were raised in America, instead of the Middle East? For every good reason to believe in God there is another reason to not. If God is such a good God, why do we have so many bad things in life.. Why do so man innocent Children have to suffer from disease, abuse, rape, murder.

The premise of the class is that you can't begin to witness to someone that does not believe if you truely don't know why you believe. The class is designed to get you think about your faith so that you can better understand it relate your thoughts to non believers.

[crowder critter]

Our preacher preached on bondages and curses recently. He stated that the innocent killing of children and so forth is a curse that can be passed down for several generations for what an ancestor had done before us. When Jesus was crucified, generations following the slaying paid for what their grandfathers and fathers had done to Jesus. They wanted his blood to be on them and their children, so their wish was granted. If generation after generation of people keep steering from God, then it will never end for them. Somewhere someone has to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and end the curse.

[duckhunterdoc]

was the scripture from Deut. "the sins of the father are passed down to the third and fourth generation"....sounds like this may have been the basis...you are correct it takes Jesus to break the chain...i use it a lot talking to alcoholics...we know there is a genetic tendency , but sometimes skips a generation as the child grew up with the alcoholic(and is scared to death of it) but the grandchild didn't---it takes Jesus to break this chain....also with domestic abuse---abuse begets abuse...generation to generation...Jesus can break the chain.......Crowder Critter- i thought about you today as i saw this post refreashed Wow 11 pages.. we kind of left you on page 3 and i wondered as i read today if you were still reading all this....you generated an awsome topic-good question-very honest ..then we moved to our own point of views to try to explain(and this is not to be critical of a single person or post) then to deeper theology(predestination)..again not to be critical because i do it too... but we ,the church, often get stuck on Theology(and sometimes even less important issues)..Salvation.(the most important issue).. only you(or me) and Jesus know for sure...and we can get an idea about the people around us by there fruits(life they lead) and if they ever confessed Jesus( but really only Jesus Knows) the last 2 post (greenhead-winkler) were really good--getting to what we really believe will help us witness--and then we may have a better idea of where our friends and loved- ones stand...( this goes for me too)...sorry so long

[rustypjr]

We are having a great Sunday School Class right now. It is called "God is not Great?" It challeges you to consider why you believe in God.

Because your Momma and Daddy told you so,
because a group of people you see on Sunday morning do.

Why do you believe what you believe. Is it because you were raised in America, instead of the Middle East? For every good reason to believe in God there is another reason to not. If God is such a good God, why do we have so many bad things in life.. Why do so man innocent Children have to suffer from disease, abuse, rape, murder.

The premise of the class is that you can't begin to witness to someone that does not believe if you truely don't know why you believe. The class is designed to get you think about your faith so that you can better understand it relate your thoughts to non believers.

That is a great idea right there. We are studing creation on Sunday nights and someone brought up the question why did God not just stop the devil or kill him right then and there? Here is the answer my preacher gave. I fGod had stopped him righ thten and there we would not know the love of God. I f he had killed hin we would know nothing of Gods grace, His power, His mercy, and we would know nothing of salvation. If you read the Bible you will fiind that the angles long to gaze into salvation. The angles long to experience salvation. God chose us humans to alone experience salvation and for that I am honored. God loved us so much. So the devil thought he was destroying God's perfect creation and destroying GOds powere, when all he really did was allow us to experience all of God's greatness.

And as I stop to think about why I believe what I believe it is because of first hand experiences. I have felt God in my life. I have seen save people that my hunble human mind could not think he could. God has shown me his power and his grace. I have seen miracles, I have heard first hand accounts of miracles. God can do anything. He saved me from the depths of hell even though I did nothing to deserve it. And at first in my own human mind I thought I owed God something for saving me. But just as there is nothing that you can do to earn your salvation I realized there is nothing I can do own my own to repay God. Ehat could I possibly repay the one person that has everything at his beckon call. So I stopped trying to pay God back and started living for God and letting him work through me. Because nothing I do own my own is worth Gods time but what God does through the Holy Spirti through me is so much better than what I can do own my on. As to why that there are bad things that happen I mean there are a million different reason we could come up with. God is testing someone's faith or the devil did it. But we know that God controls all things just as after Katrina I had to comfort my wife's aunt and uncle and their 2 kids. They 2 kids kept blaming God but if you look at them now they will tell you that they are so much happier now than they were before katrina. They spend more time together as a family and get to go to church more. I know Katrina caused devastation and destruction. I believe that God is in control of everything and that everything happens for a reason we may not know today or tomorrow but one day when it is appropiate we will know, and it may not come until we are face to face with the King. But I find joy in everything because he is in control. my 2 cents.

[Hayes]

Maybe it's just me, but considering that the greatest thinkers in the Christian tradition - Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards, and even Wesley, although he's more reluctant about it than the others - believe in predestination, well, I'm inclined to lean that way as well.

Well you're in luck! The Creator is inclined to "lean" that way too!

Obviously predsestination exist the scripture talks about it. The big misunderstanding is what it really means. And I think Adrian Explains it well. And for someone to say God hand picks who is saved and then hand picks from the begginning that certain people are destined to go to hell is is foolish and no where in scripture. That is not the loving God I serve.

I urge any of you that have a misconception of predestination or beleive that some people are chosen the be saved and others are chose to go to hell to truly sit down and listen to Adrian sermon on it and then listen to someone that does believe it and see what makes more sense to you. To me there is absolutley no question after I listened to Dr Rogers.