Bible Question

[rustypjr]

The Catholic church thinks of abortion as murder. What say you all?

Absolutely. From conception, there is a human in a woman's womb, no matter what the pro-abortion crowd chooses to call it. That baby doesn't become a human the day it comes out into the open air, it is a human inside the mother from day 1. Some call it pro-choice, but abortion is genocide, plain and simple.

I agree. I believe I became a daddy the monment my wife concieved. The baby is alive form the moment of conception. Abortion is Murder.

[Deltamud77]

I am Baptist and I have never heard that we are called to follow Christ without God calling us.

with this

Anyone can be a christian if they choose to.

What if they never hear the gospel? They are never called, therefore, not anyone can be a Christian if they choose.

I believe God knows everything. He knows who will choose to follow him and who will not. God knows everything.

We agree God knows everything and I am sure you agree God created everything...therefore if He set everything in order and He knows who will choose Him...He predestined them to choose Him.

It all makes for good discussion

[mudsucker]

I have always heard that the Bible says that if someone commits suicide then they are condemned to hell. Is this stated directly in the Bible? Not thinking about killing myself, but I had a cousin to do this a few years back and was just wondering his fate.

This is still the original question guys. We have gone off on other tangents here!

[henkiller]

We agree God knows everything and I am sure you agree God created everything...therefore if He set everything in order and He knows who will choose Him...He predestined them to choose Him.

Just because He knows our heart and knows who will choose Him does not mean that He created us with that disposition......and anyway, we don't know who will choose Him and therefore should offer Him to everyone.

Paul supposedly spoke of predestination but there is plenty of evidence to show he did not believe in predestination......In 1 Tim 2:4, God will have ALL men to be saved. Paul spent his entire life laboring among the gentiles....why would he do this if he didn't believe that salvation was available to everyone.

In Galations 3:27-29 Paul told the Galation, "As many of you as have been baptized unto Christ have put on Christ.....And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."

All of Paul's epistles contain pleadings with the church to remain faithful....why would this be necessary if he believed in predestination.

[cwink]

I don't believe in predestination. If I did, then what would be the point of striving to be a better person??? Therefore if I don't beleive in predestination by default I have to believe that we can come into and fall out of the grace of God because of our free will. The Bible talks about how God is our Father, so when questions like these come up, I have to try and apply human logic to the situation (cause that is all I have). I am a Father of a 2 year old and I know my Child, but do I know everything that is going on in his little mind or heart? Do I know every move he is going to make. I only know the things I gained from him telling me or showing me..

Yes God knows us, but I don't believe he knows everything that is our heart and in our minds. That is what Prayer is for, to confess and to talk to God. I think that through our actions, choices, prayer, Jesus's Sacrifice and the Grace of God we have a shot at heaven.

If we are predestined to Heaven or Hell, then IMO our life on this earth is meaningless, because no matter what we do or how we act or fate is already determined, and that is the part that I struggle with.

[cwink]

I have always heard that the Bible says that if someone commits suicide then they are condemned to hell. Is this stated directly in the Bible? Not thinking about killing myself, but I had a cousin to do this a few years back and was just wondering his fate.

This is still the original question guys. We have gone off on other tangents here!

My dad passed away in December from Cirrohsis caused by alchol. Although I had never really thought about it this way but in a way his death was a suicide as well. Anybody that abuses thier body and ultimatly ends up killing themselves whether or not it happens in an instance or takes years can be consider a suicide at least IMO. So I would think this would be considered as not treating your body as a temple. In that case overeating, drinking or any other excess that would lead to an untimely death would fall into the same line as suicide????

I used to, but this thread has changed my mind..

[Deltamud77]

we don't know who will choose Him and therefore should offer Him to everyone

Completely agree...The PCA church is massively involved in evangelism. The church I attend sends millions of dollars to the mission field every year and sponsors hundreds of missionaries. Like I said above, God is in the ends and the means. How does God prompt one's heart...through the Gospel...how do you hear the gospel...through witnessing.

and

If I did, then what would be the point of striving to be a better person

Because you owe it to God for his mercy out of gratitude and also because it is commanded.

Yes God knows us, but I don't believe he knows everything that is our heart and in our minds.

If God does not know everything, how can he be God? If he knows how many hairs are on your head, I bet he knows more about you than you know yourself.

Mudsucker...the reason I added a hint of Calvinism to the topic is to illustrate one set of beliefs that if you are chosen by God, suicide, nor anything else can separate you from Him. Unfortunately, (mostly my fault) we have gone astray of the original topic as a result and I do apologize.

[mudsucker]

No need to apologize, just that I am not sure our fellow ducker, Crowder Critter has had enough info to make up his mind on the subject! I was trying to see if homocide and suicide where thought of as the same, taking of a life(sin), in the eyes of most biblical scholars?

[tombstone]

Suicide is a sin just like any other sin. If someone has put their faith in Jesus Christ (being saved) sin cannot seperate them from God. So, the answer is no, a person who commits suicide, IF they are a Christian, will not go to hell. We, as Christians, serve a loving, forgiving, and awesome God!

That is Crowder Critter's answer right there.
Doesn't matter if they committed suicide or died from heart failure. If their faith is in JESUS, they will spend eternity with him.


Also, I agree that aborion is murder.

I have just now had a chance to get on the site and look at the thread, and I want to say that everyone has really been courteous and respectful. I think that is really an accomplishment on such a topic.

[skywalker]

Yep, I have been impressed at how respectful it has remained. I am glad to see we are all adults here.....

skywalker

[henkiller]

Completely agree...The PCA church is massively involved in evangelism. The church I attend sends millions of dollars to the mission field every year and sponsors hundreds of missionaries. Like I said above, God is in the ends and the means. How does God prompt one's heart...through the Gospel...how do you hear the gospel...through witnessing.

Awesome! Here's another one for you.......what about those who never get the chance to hear the gospel but would accept it if only they had the chance?

Eventhough your church is spending millions and is active in the missionary effort......what about those you don't get to? The fact that missionaries do find converts is evidence that the "chosen" are out there waiting.

[bigoak]

Here is a question that we discussed Wednesday night. If God indeed knows everything that we will do in the future, good or bad, then does that mean that every sin we commit is God's will? If you say He knows who will accept him and who will reject him then is it His will if someone rejects him? I do not believe that being lost in sin is His will for anyone. I believe that he gives us "free will" to decide therefore he cannot know exactly what we will choose.

[Deltamud77]

Eventhough your church is spending millions and is active in the missionary effort......what about those you don't get to? The fact that missionaries do find converts is evidence that the "chosen" are out there waiting.

I couldn't agree more. In the US we are spoiled (especially in the Bible belt) to have access to God at every turn. We are spoiled materially as well. Most of us spend far more on duck hunting every year than the average non-US citizen makes in a year. People around the globe thrist for hope.

Some of ya'll old timers might remember a fellow named Bo Bowen that played in the same backfield with Archie. Bo scored a touchdown in the Sugar Bowl. Bo now spends roughly 6 to 8 months per year in the Eukraine sharing the gospel. Because of his ministry, perhaps tens of thousands of people haved accepted Christ.

I think the fact that there are those out there that never hear the gospel is further proof of my points. God knows when he creates them that they will never have the opportunity to choose Him. I do not understand that. However, I know that but for the Grace of God, we would all be headed to a really hot place. That is the essence of grace....we don't deserve it and cannot claim to.

People say it is not fair to those who never had a chance to know, and I agree with my weak, sinful mind. I cannot rap my mind around it completely.

[Deltamud77]

I believe that he gives us "free will" to decide therefore he cannot know exactly what we will choose.

I am not trying to be the poster boy for Calvinism, but...

Is sin God's will? No, it is the result of our free will. Did God know we would sin given free will? Yes. Did he learn of sin when the forbidden fruit was eaten? No, He cannot learn because He is all knowing.

We have free will...no argument...but your statement above insinuates that God, all powerful God, has no power over your stated free will, not even the power to prompt you to follow Him. Therefore, Christ does not have the power to save you by himself, he needs you to do it for him by choosing Him on your own..i.e., he made an imperfect sacrifice.

Questions for ya'll: I think we agree that Hell is eternal separation from God and as described in the Bible, swimming in a lake of fire for eternity. You are in essence paying for you sins as Christ paid for the sins of Christians. If Christ died for everybody and thus paid for the sins of everybody, then do those who don't go to Heaven actually burn for eternity, or just enter some state of equlibrium not in heaven, or just vanish? If he died for everybody, why would anybody have to pay for their own sins? Are your sins then paid for twice (obviously we could never do enough to pay for our own sins)?

[Bigpoppa]

Nobody even scratched at my question?