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While this board generally gives some good advice, it doesn't always work for the dog in question. Problems are sometimes very unique to the dog, and require different avenues to work through the problems.

Anyone wish to share how you have in the past worked through a specific problem with your dog that wasn't so cut and dried??

I think a prime example of this is proper balance of pressure with the dogs temperament. Sometimes this takes time and experimentation to figure out what works best for your dog. Sometimes a dog plays you, and needs bigger and less corrections, and sometimes the sensitive ones need lower and more....just depends. It always depends. And nothing is in black in white.

Please share what you have learned in the past with specific problems, and maybe someone can learn something on here for a change.

never mind.......

MRC Dream wrote:
I think a prime example of this is proper balance of pressure with the dogs temperament. Sometimes this takes time and experimentation to figure out what works best for your dog. Sometimes a dog plays you, and needs bigger and less corrections, and sometimes the sensitive ones need lower and more....just depends. It always depends. And nothing is in black in white.

I believe im fighting this right now. I cant tell if being to hard and she doesn't want to take it or she is playing me which causes me to back off some. i feel as if i haven't set my standards for her high enough and she knows that. Its definitely a thin line.

Bored, for a lack of a better word, seems to be what she is when doing pile work. If I throw marks, she puts a good leap into the water and has high energy. If i line her up on a pattern blind, she just moseys into the water and seems to "take her time".

We only have bumpers so i cannot add a duck to spice things up. Also, if she is working with other dogs, her energy is always high..

Sounds like i just answered my own problem..

Time will tell.

MRC Dream wrote: I think a prime example of this is proper balance of pressure with the dogs temperament. Sometimes this takes time and experimentation to figure out what works best for your dog. Sometimes a dog plays you, and needs bigger and less corrections, and sometimes the sensitive ones need lower and more....just depends. It always depends. And nothing is in black in white.

You just summed up my whole training program with one question. LOL! The best answer I can give is to make sure the dog is not confused and fully understands what you are asking before adding a correction, and sometimes lack of quick response does not warrant more pressure.

Hey DIB, don't take your toys and leave. I'll play.

MRC Dream wrote: I think a prime example of this is proper balance of pressure with the dogs temperament. Sometimes this takes time and experimentation to figure out what works best for your dog. Sometimes a dog plays you, and needs bigger and less corrections, and sometimes the sensitive ones need lower and more....just depends. It always depends. And nothing is in black in white.

The concept of "reading" the dog and knowing how to balance teaching, attrition, and corrections is the most difficult part of training. The successful, experienced trainers can do this intuitively; I friggin' can't...yet. But I will.

My 2-3yo BLF failed 3-4 Senior/Master tests this past spring because she could not finish a blind cleanly. At distance, she became loose and would overcast or miscast, resulting in big, jagged lines on the scoring sheet. I didn't want to "curb her enthusiasm" for cold blinds so I only used attrition in training. We would see marginal improvement, but at a test it would reoccur. I had the opportunity to run her under the observation of a well-known hunt test/SRS pro and we set up 3 cold blinds; short (75), medium (150), long (225). When she started "pinging" on the long blind, he was in my ear, "whistle, burn; whistle, burn" on every over- or mis-cast. He immediately knew I was being played. We have been training with these corrections for the last three weeks and the improvement is amazing. You have to be willing to experiment a little...and ask for help.

I would love to give the solution to my training problem but I haven't found it. Creeping has always been an issue with one of my dogs. I tried pressure both heeling stick and e-collar. Tried pulling her back with a choke collar and a lead. The technique that seemed to have the best results was the use of a simple black mat. The dog understands the black and white of a mat. Either all feet are on it or they are not. This seemed to help her understand that corrections were for movement. Now this same dog will sit like a stone at an AKC event. All bets are off when and 870 is involved.

Mark Land

fishduck wrote: All bets are off when and 870 is involved.

Mark Land

Which begs the question: Just how often do you shoot poppers in training?

I wish it was that simple. Before running the Union City Grand I bought 1000 primer loads and shot all of them. Dog sat still but marking fell off so badly that we didn't get through the 1st series. It is amazing to watch a dog sit on a mat through a flyer in her face but bounce around like a basketball when shucking an 870.

Thanks for the suggestion
Mark Land

I figured you had Mark, but was just pointing that out for others. See it all the time. I also own a test wise dog!

Aren't most of the good dogs test wise? Too damn hard to recreate the environment in training.

As far as steadiness issues I have changed my approach. After several wild animals I've found more and more pressure with the stick and collar to not really help. I have had better success through denial and rethrowing a lot of retrieves. Gradually increase the standard so absolutely no movement is tolerated. Gradually increase the temptation with flyers,guns,etc.

I used this approach from day one with my Lucy pup and couldn't be happier with her line manners. We'll see how she does on game day though....she runs a derby this weekend.

Bill

While stick and e-collar pressure certainly helped with line manners what developed was nervousness at the line. This caused such anxiety that my normally pinpoint marking dog was unable to mark simple triples. This caused some of the first handles in tests (not counting the ones when she didn't see the mark). With high drive dogs in the future I will stress steadiness much earlier and keep strict standards.

My biggest problem was training for the next title instead of training for the finished product.
Mark Land

I dont know if it helps anyone else. But you all know Nash is as wild as a buck come test time. And needless to say during training he sits like a stone too. I figured it was due to the collar. So I started running during training with out a collar. Amazing at the difference.

Doc & Nash wrote:I dont know if it helps anyone else. But you all know Nash is as wild as a buck come test time. And needless to say during training he sits like a stone too. I figured it was due to the collar. So I started running during training with out a collar. Amazing at the difference.

Great, until he flips you the bird while out in the field.......then what you going to do??

MRC Dream wrote:

Doc & Nash wrote:I dont know if it helps anyone else. But you all know Nash is as wild as a buck come test time. And needless to say during training he sits like a stone too. I figured it was due to the collar. So I started running during training with out a collar. Amazing at the difference.

Great, until he flips you the bird while out in the field.......then what you going to do??

I chased him down and had a come to Jesus meeting and then back in the box...