DuckSouth.com

Now this is just my opinion, and I am sure there are going to be some of you that will disagree, and that is why I am posting this (not looking for an argument mind you, but just to see what others think on this subject). I believe that they can come up with whatever new type of shot they want to, but NOTHING will be as good as lead until they come up with a load that is heavier or just as heavy as lead and just as SOFT. When you shoot ducks/geese with steel, bizmuth, or hevi-shot the bird is simply NOT absorbing all the energy the load has to offer because the shot is just blowing right through the bird. Lead's soft characteristics allowed for it to "mushroom" if you will and not pass completely through the bird thus transferring ALL its energy into the bird. That is the reason for the clean kills of yesteryear. They talk about the density of hevi-shot being greater than lead and its weighing more, and Bizmuth being heavier or whatever they claim about it, truth be known, once again in my opinion, that is making their shot LESS effective than steel even. On rare ocasions I will find a steel pellet stuck in a bird...that steel pellet transferred all its energy into that bird, A heavier projectile shot at the same fps would have retained more of its energy an passed straight on through whatever stopped the steel thus not transferring all its energy into the bird.

Dutch I would have to agree with ya. Now my opinion is not scientific in the least but since we went to steel I have never noticed as many pellets in the birds as you used to find with lead. Finding a pellet in the bird itself is almost a rare occasion at least in the breast area. If the pellet does not mushroom or stop in the bird it can not have a maximum transfer of energy. This proves true with any ammo you shoot.

I forgot to add that on my budget I cant afford any thing but steel anyway!

I have shot numerous types from the chapest in college to Bismuth. In my opinion you cannot go wrong with the Kent 3 1/2" #2.

Imagine that kent 3 1/2 with #4 or #6 lead! (imagine the recoil too...ever shot a 3 1/2" turkey load???)

Guy's I have loaded bismuth/hevishot. For me I can't tell enough difference in it and steel to warrant the price difference. Now lead is a different story. 10 ga 13/4 ounce 54 grain lead load will smoke anything at 100yds. When I was a kid we used to shoot 23/4 #5's man that was the good ole days

I'm with ya on the 2&3/4 # 5's Torch. It was lights out on ducks.

2-3/4" #5 handload's.
Cost about 12 cents per trigger pull.

Well here goes,

At thirty yards or less, steel shot is very effective. After 30 it gets iffy. It is not only the density of the load that delivers killing power, it is the speed(velocity) at which is strikes the bird that is equally important.

I hated steel when I first gave up my old lead 2 3/4 #5's but as I adapted to it I found that it performed well at 20-30 yards. It is faster than lead so you don't have to lead as much and since I shoot mainly from a layout and most of my shots are within 20 yards, it puts the hurt on em. The B&P shells from outlaw.com are outstanding and dirt cheap and next to them I really like the Kent faststeel.

I would shoot the heavi shot and tungsten etc etc but paying 1.50 per round with two trigger happy boys and myself would cost me a small fortune every year. I could afford it but my old pappy taught me to get the most out of my dollar and you cannot beat the B&P or Kent for the buck. My two cents worth.

Here goes...F=ma. Period. Or "force equal mass times acceleration". (Newtons second law). Discuss all we like, and you still don't change physics...Never....The more massive an object, given an accelleration, the more force applied to the resultant object. So given the restrections proven by Sir Isaac Newton, we conclude that "Hevi-shot" does a better job applying force to a duck than lead can....

Model12,
Your opinion has one flaw. While F=ma, you are not determining where that force is applied. If the shot does not stop in the bird (which happens when the shot goes through because it doesn't mushroom), all of the force produced is not applied to killing the bird. Therefore, more force may be produced, but the majority of the force is applied to whatever object finally stops the projectile. Just my view on that equation.

what I can tell you is based on my observation. Ducks shot at similar distances with steel and with hevi shot had different results:
- hevi: real dead when they hit the water
- steel: nearly dead-maybe swimming when they hit the water (or watched them fly off with a fluff of feathers coming down....may have been too much body and not enough head shot).

any hoo. A fella told me this...if you can shoot, then it's worth it to make clean kills with fewer shells. If you can't shoot, then buy cheap shells and fill the sky with steel and hope (as long as the range is reasonable). If you just like to skybust, go join your fellow bretheren at Askew...you'll be right at home. (Dutch D ... that comment wasn't aimed at you, I figure you're a straight up hunter).

cheers

no problem...I prefer to shoot ducks within 25yds or better. I hate having to shoot 1 duck 3 times to get it down when there are 50 out there left to shoot at. I second what Drake said...if it doesn't stay in the bird all the energy wasn't applied!

Lead, steel, bismuth, hevi-shot or whatever. It all comes down to doing your homework. Your gun is going to shoot one size or one brand or one particular load better than all others, that's the one you hunt with. You are right though about the lead. It's the same with a rifle. If you stop a bullet in a deer and you know the velocity at that range then you also know the energy absorbed into that deer. IF THE BULLET GOES THROUGH THEN YOU WILL NEVER KNOW ANTHING!! We shoot steel # 2 mainly we also use turkey chokes too. You can overcome energy with velocity and just ventilate them suckers!!! try shooting some .650 or .660 ventilated chokes they work. They shoot very tight and you got to be good or you will miss. But when you hit they die!!!! we shoot out to 60-70 yards. no problems. One note though those tight chokes don't last but about 3-400 shot after that screw it out put in a new one and use the old one for a decoy weight. It won't rust

Seal the deal and steel kills.

Fast steel can kill a duck at any range you can hit one. Thats a fact. We regulary kill ducks graveyard dead at 55 yards in the wind. Big shot, pushed fast, with tight chokes. BR-549 is right on about that. I've seen T pellets push all the way through a lite goose at 75 yards, flipping it over backwards. How freggin far ya'll want to shoot?

$3 a shot for heavishot or bizmuth? You got to be joking. Might as well carry one of those special neck crackers wif you, just in case your $10 barragey didn't kill a duck dead.

The best long range duck load is and always has been... a kick ass dog. travis