Open for Discussion... Anybody in the Tupelo know this group

[cwink]

On the morning of July 12, 2007, a clergyman was delivering the opening prayer for the United States Senate when he was interrupted by three loud protesters in the Senate visitors gallery who were shouting "Lord Jesus, protect us from this abomination," and other complaints to protest the prayer being delivered. According to an Associated Press reporter on the scene one of the protesters told him just before being handcuffed and hauled away by police, "We are Christians and patriots." It is also reported that due to the extraordinary level of disruption inflicted upon the Senate by these protestors it was necessary for the president pro-tem of the Senate to repeatedly beat the gavel in an effort to restore order and that eventually the prayer had to be halted while the Sergeant of Arms restored order in the Senate chamber.

The three protestors, identified as Ante Nediko Pavkovic, Katherine Lynn Pavkovic and Christan Renee Sugar by Capitol Hill police, were arrested on for disrupting Congress, a misdemeanor. They all refused to provide their hometown, ages and affiliations.

If you've not already heard about this story you might be wondering why these three Christians chose to disrupt the Senate opening prayer like that. It appears they were protesting the fact that for the first time in US history the Senate opening prayer was being delivered by a Hindu. Ever since it became known that a Hindu clergyman had been invited to deliver the opening prayer the American Family Association [AFA], headed by Donald Wildmon and based in Tupelo, Mississippi, has been sending out "action alerts" to its members and exhorting both its members and other Christian fundamentalists to protest this historic event by sending e-mails to their Senators expressing disappointment in the decision to invite a Hindu to deliver the Senate's opening prayer.

The AFA's "action alerts" are quoted as saying that "since Hindus worship multiple gods, the prayer will be completely outside the American paradigm, flying in the face of the American motto, 'One Nation Under God,'" and "In Hindu, you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods. And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution, the Declaration (of Independence) when they talked about Creator -- that's not one that fits here because we don't know which creator we're talking about within the Hindu religion."

It seems that the American Family Association considers the roughly 2 million Hindus living in the US to be second class citizens whose religious beliefs should not be expressed in public, and that only the prayers of Christians and selected other monotheists (Jews, perhaps; Muslims, perhaps not) should be allowed on the floor of the United States Senate.

In this forum it is not uncommon to see members who are Christians whining about how their religious beliefs are so oppressed and how their rights are being trampled, but here we have a clear example of religious intolerance and it's Christians who are the clear perpetrators of that intolerance and not the victims at all. They claim that others have been working to push free religious expression out of the public square, but who was pushing to remove free religious expression from the public square on the morning of July 12 in the US Senate? Christians were. These people are hypocrites and religious bigots. When has a Hindu ever disrupted a Christian opening prayer in the Senate?

Here are some links to some detailed news reports of this story as well as some thoughtful commentary. Some of them include extensive background far beyond anything I have provided here.

[cajun squealer]

Chad, I hope you copied and pasted that post from somewehre else because it spits in the faces our country's discoverers and founding fathers. Allowing a pagan of Hindu background to pray the opening prayer of the senate of a nation founded and estalished by Christians, for Christians is an abomination. This is just another instance of political pandering to a minority. As reprehensible of an event this is, it doesn't suprise me anymore. I'll stand with the A.F.A. on this one. The only room for debate here lies in the means of protest.

[rjohnson]

Bunch of crazy hypocrites. The wife's mother used to work for them. While she was there they had one of their people get busted for child porn. They also protest any and everything they can find. Example when KISS was coming to the Tupelo Coliseum they threw up a big picket line outside the Coliseum and raised all kinds of hell at city board meetings leading up to the concert. They had a boycott on Disney for a long time because of gay day there. Also had several affairs going on within the office. Two of them ran off together and left their spouses with small children. They are a pretty extreme bunch of folks who don't necessarily practice what they preach.

[cwink]

Yeah I got it off netscape... I have mixed feelings on it.. Not sure I agree with them letting a Hindu lead the prayer. But I didn't even know they had an opening prayer in Congress. Why is it they can have it there, but not in school?????

[Lazy Drake]

That AFA bunch is different. Didn't they a long time ago try to get playboy banned from being sold in Tupelo, and citizens went out and bought all of them up. AFA tries to force their opinion down everyones throat.

[rjohnson]

Chad, I hope you copied and pasted that post from somewehre else because it spits in the faces our country's discoverers and founding fathers. Allowing a pagan of Hindu background to pray the opening prayer of the senate of a nation founded and estalished by Christians, for Christians is an abomination. This is just another instance of political pandering to a minority. As reprehensible of an event this is, it doesn't suprise me anymore. I'll stand with the A.F.A. on this one. The only room for debate here lies in the means of protest.

Isn't it hypocritical to say they shouldn't say the prayer when they have the right to practice Hinduism in America??? Not pointing fingers just asking questions. I'm sure the pledge was written in a time when there was basically only Christians in our country thus One Nation Under God. The fore fathers wanted everyone to have religious freedom as they desired. That's why they floated over here and gained independence. They may be a pagan to Christians but they have the right to choose their faith too. They are represented by the senators just like we are. Are they to be denied prayer in the Senate because they don't follow the popular religion? Tough debate on this one.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/221/story_22175_1.html More info

[tunica]

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Reading this it appears to Me that it dont matter what religion you are you have a right to practice that religion in a public forum. Kind of Rings with Home of the Free.

[rjohnson]

That AFA bunch is different. Didn't they a long time ago try to get playboy banned from being sold in Tupelo, and citizens went out and bought all of them up. AFA tries to force their opinion down everyones throat.

Yep, that's the same people. They are not very accepting of people they deem "different" or their "different" ways.

[rustypjr]

AFR which is their radio station plays good music and also has some great speakers on from time to time. I would like to think that our country would stand on the christian faith that we are founded on. I do not agree with the way the protesters went about it though. There would have been a better way than to stoop to a lower level and start yelling and disrupting things. AFA also supports some really great causes.

[fireplug]

AFA also supports some really great causes.

I agree. I recieve notification emails from them on a number of important issues, the hate crimes bill is a biggy they have been harping on lately, and I agree with them on it, but I also get many from them that I don't agree with and don't support, like the recent issue where they wanted Ms to get rid of the Casinos on the coast...... I was totally against banning casinos. They are a legitimate business and have every right to set up shop.

The Congressman that is Hindu was elected by the people he represents, so if they want a person with that kind of religious belief representing them, more power to them. If I lived in the county he represents, I'd move, or I would work to get someone to replace him. The power of democracy. JMO

[duck lord]

Religion defined in the United States: Judism, Catholic, Protestant.
All others are cults. This country was founded by christians not heatherns.

[cwink]

Religion defined in the United States: Judism, Catholic, Protestant.
All others are cults. This country was founded by christians not heatherns.

I just don't get it.. They can't even declare English as the language of the US, but they defined religion.. Then you hear all of these rants about seperation of church and state, yet they open Congress with a prayer, but take the pledge of allegiance out of the schools... Just baffles me.. These guys don't know thier head from their oh you know..

[crow]

Our school board opens every monthly business meeting with a prayer. All Christian denominations are represented throughout the year, as are Jews, Muslims, and Hindus. The board chair makes a statement that the opening prayer, in no fashion, indicates individual beliefs of members of the board and that the board does not advocate for one over others, but we ask all people of good will, of all religions and faiths, to go to prayer to ask their blessings on the meeting and the leadership for their decision-making.

I have no problem with that. When the Hindu guy is praying (pretty weird, I might add), I am praying to my God, in his wisdom and power, to guide those of us who must make decisions that affect children in our system. Is it ok for Christians to pray for Hindu and Islamic students? I have no problem with them praying for me, either. Their prayers are nothing but empty echoes to me, but I do know they are people of good will who come into our building with respect and good-will. As I've said several times, I will respect those who are worthy of respect. I believe their faith is meaningless, but I am willing to accept the individual's act of goodwill.

Now, I do have a slight problem to work out with the Muslims!

[mudsucker]

Religion defined in the United States: Judism, Catholic, Protestant.
All others are cults. This country was founded by christians not heatherns.

Only when we are dead will we know for sure!

[Hays Creek]

Religion defined in the United States: Judism, Catholic, Protestant.
All others are cults. This country was founded by christians not heatherns.

some would say it's a "heathern" move to call yourself the "lord" of the ducks.....

I say live and let live....