Retriever question

Wildfowler · Postby **Wildfowler** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:15 pm

I know there are plenty of qualified opinions around here to help with a question I have. My question is two-fold, and I would like to have my first question answered before I continue. I also want to say thank you to Labs & Ducks for posting a link to the gooddog website. That site is exactly what I have been looking for. A site where you can verify the "credentials" of a retriever.

Will someone please tell me what an "NAFC" or an "NFC" as it relates to a dog title? I assume this to mean that the dog was a national field trail champion for a given year. Literally meaning the best field trial dog of that year. Is this correct? If so, how does a dog obtain this designation?

Thanks.

Hambone · Postby **Hambone** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:30 pm

You sure have been asking alot of questions on trial-related subjects. Do you have Squealer in secret training?

chance · Postby **chance** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:15 pm

National Amateur Field Trial Champion and National field Trial Champion. D pends on the handler---whether he handles for renumeration or not. Same dog can get both titles. Two different handlers. One amateur and one pro.

Wildfowler · Postby **Wildfowler** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 10:20 pm

Yes, that's what I thought. My next question relates back to these titles that I found in my dog's ancestry. She has a total of five NAFC/NFC's in her lineage occurring 4, 5, & 6 generations back from one half of her breeding. The rest of the dogs in this same half of her pedigree are FC's or MH's. Unfortunately, there are no notable designations in her immediate lineage, other that the fact that she and her parents have all been dynamic hunters.

I'm looking for opinions here, and I would like to know if anyone here thinks that these champion genes become diluted once they get this far "downstream". In my mind, I believe her pedigree to be well above the average. I also believe that her puppies will start out their lives already well ahead of the rest of the pack. But on the flip side, I suppose that it's possible that a common denominator (common ancestor) could occur in most of today's lab's if you look far enough back. If so, I could see how this fact could make my dog no better than the rest. Someone here recently replied to a similar question that I had posed. His post brought up the point of the similar ancestry possibly occurring in a majority of the well bred labs of today. I am just trying to separate my pup from the rest of the pups out there, while he is still a pup. If this is even possible.

As stated in the past, I've never been "into" field trials, so I just don't know all of the ins and outs of the sport. So please excuse me if these questions seem trivial to those of you already in the know.

Thanks again.

chance · Postby **chance** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:49 am

If I were in the market for a puppy today, I would look for a breeding that had titled lineage as close to the puppy as I could afford. This should give me a better chance to have the kind of finished retriever that I would like to have. Titled parents does not guarantee the abilities of the offspring but it does increase the odds. Let me warn you that champion titles does not mean that the parents will necessarily pass those qualities to their offspring. Some really fine FC/AFC dogs are not passing their abilities to the puppies.Wonder dog has the ability plus the training necessary to enhance his ability.
Since you already have this dog, you should spend your time socializing him. This means having fun together, letting him inside to acclimate with the family and carrying him around to get him used to all sorts of strange and wondrous things in the world. As he develops into the kind of retriever and friend he can be you will find his worth will be multiplied by his devotion and the great times you share rather than what might be deep inside of those little DNA cells.

Labs & Ducks · Postby **Labs & Ducks** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:41 pm

Wildfowler - You might want to look at another situation possibly at hand. Have you researched your current dogs records through UKC? I run my dogs heavily in AKC and UKC events. The UKC hunt tests are growing both in the number of HRC Clubs and participants. There is a chance that some of your dogs ancestors could be titles in the UKC and not the AKC. Some people really focus on one or the other. There are numerous clubs of both variety around this area, but the previous owners may focus on UKC. Just a thought....

Chance answered your question on the NFC and NAFC. If you will go to www.working-retriever.com there are in depth definitions for all of the field trial titles and how they are obtained. I'm not exactly sure how to guide you there through this post, but I am sure you can find it without any problem.

As for purchasing dogs with titled parentange, I am going to hae to agree with Chance. Buy a puppy with parents that are titled, or as closely as you can afford. Also, by doing this I feel like you buy a quality puppy to. Meaning, most peoploe with titled dogs are going to make sure that their dogs can aquire an OFA number for their hips and a CERF number for their eyes. Although this is still no guarantee that the puppy will not have hip or eye problems, it definately reduces the chances A LOT.

Hope this helps!!

chance · Postby **chance** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:20 pm

Wildfowler---don't know how close we are butI would like to invite you to attend a meeting of Southern Flight HRC. We meet the second Tuesday nite of each month at Ryans Steakhouse in Horn Lake Ms. Ole Goosebruce is the second-in-command. He and a contingent of our club members are in Canada now for the International Grand hunt. Five days of trials and we still have five dogs playing after day two.

Waboduck · Postby **Waboduck** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:27 pm

Chance....I saw that your dog is still in the hunt. We will be pulling for him as we will for all the dogs from this part of the world.
MS/BAMA is looking for you to come down on Oct 12&13 so keep your schedule open if you can. Good luck for the rest of the week.
Keith

Bobby Williams · Postby **Bobby Williams** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:47 pm

Chance where did Goose get his dog Rowdy? Story is he found him trapped in a trash barrell starving to death. Is that true???? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

NOHERE · Postby **NOHERE** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:15 pm

THE PARENTS OF THE PUPPY GIVE 50%
THE NEXT GENERATION BACK YOUR LOOKING AT 25% FROM THE 2ND GENERATION...THE FARTHER BACK YOU GO THE LESS YOU GET IN THE PUP...HOWEVER...IN GENERAL THE BITCH PLAYS THE MOST IMPORTANT ROLE IN WHAT THE PUP WILL HAVE IN HIM/HER.. SO IF THERE IS A STRONG BITCH LINE ON THAT SIDE OF THE PEDIGRE..AND YOU STATED THAT THERE ARE PLENTY OF NFC OR NAFC OR FC OR AFC ON THE DAM SIDE, I WOULD SAY YOUR IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE.

ONE OF THE BEST DOGS TO THROW OUTSTANDING PUPS WAS A DOG NAMED SUPER POWDER, THIS DOG WAS NEVER TITLED, BUT DID COME OUT OF 2 TITLED PARTENTS. LIKE CHANCE SAID, IF SHE/HE IS ALREADY YOURS, GET STARTED TEACHING!!

HARLEY · Postby **HARLEY** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 10:46 pm

Just got a new puppy. Stud dog is "Water Marks the Boss", mother is a two time master national qualifier. Should be enough DNA to get me started if I hold up my end of the bargain. I have heard alot about Southern Flight RC and I'm interested in learning more. I would like to come to a training session to see what the UKC is like. I have run the AKC tests with the dog I have now and love it, just want to learn more about UKC. Have heard alot of opinions but want to try it myself. If the dog turns out like he should I would like to run him both ways.

Bobby Williams · Postby **Bobby Williams** » Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:29 pm

Harley let me give you some advice about Southern Flight HRC. If you don't want to have a great time. Don't go. If you don't want everyone there to give you a slap on the back and wish you luck. Don't go. If you don't want to get a lot of water poured on you when you title your dog. Don't go. If you don't want to get fed like a KING at the tailgate party DON'T GO. There are some strange people that run dogs there. Watch out for a guy named Travis with a dog named Rowdy. Rowdy is alright but Travis may bite. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Wildfowler · Postby **Wildfowler** » Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:43 pm

Cool, thanks for all of the info guys. Incedentally, "Super Powder" occurs 4 generations up from my dog. Small world, isn't it?

chance · Postby **chance** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:29 pm

Thanks KLeith. Yea we are still playing into number four. Upland will be her weakest suit. Not real comfortable with the quartering.
Bobby---have to tell the truth here. Rowdy came fron Scott Whitakers bitch and Linda Brewers male. That dog is truly attached to ole Trav. They train nearly every day.
Been working on our own version of DFT's. Moutain Dew cans. Dogs will retrieve them well. Thin aluminum allows you to judge for hardmouth. Put a huggy on them and they become water ready. Can fill them with duck scent. Backend of Travis's truck has a huge supply. No problems from PETA. Cans can be recycled so the enviromentalists will be happy. I'm telling ya--I think we are on to something.

Big Lou · Postby **Big Lou** » Fri Jul 05, 2002 4:18 pm

I would not limit the atmosphere and congrats to just UKC....AKC can be just as fun. Why not do both! If your dog does not retieve anything you ask of it....then it is not a good dog properly forced fetched. I usually test my dog around the house with all kinds of items. If I am out and about in the woods and I find something repulsive I will ask hhim to retrieve it and he will. I am amazed at the looks on some peoples faces after they see what my dog will retieve. I like having fun with it at the camp! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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