DuckSouth.com

I WANT A SHORTER SEASON AND REDUCED LIMIT

Some of you won't like this, some of you will but here is the truth as I know it about duck hunting in Mississippi...

Given current habitat conditions, the best thing that could ever happen for our duck hunting- in terms of seeing lots of callable ducks- is a drastically reduced season length and bag limit...

WHY?

With duck seasons starting as early as Oct 1 to the north of us (maybe earlier if the season frameworks are changed), hunters to the north have about 2 months to shoot ducks before our season opens...No matter how late our season runs, a lot of ducks have been killed before the migration arrives here...States like Wisconsin and Illinois kill a whole lot more ducks than we do...

The bottomline is that fewer days and fewer birds in the limit means more ducks alive to migrate to Mississippi...

EVIDENCE

I've been keeping meticulous records of my duck hunting since 1980...A look at my records for the 1990s/2000s tells the story:

1990 14 days, 31 birds, 3 bird limit
1991 16 days, 45 birds, 3 bird limit
1992 28 days, 82 birds, 3 bird limit
1993 19 days, 72 birds,4 bird limit
1994 23 days, 85 birds,4 bird limit
1995 31 days, 145 birds,5 bird limit
1996 30 days, 112 birds,5 bird limit
1997 30 days, 115 birds,6 bird limit
1998 30 days, 153 birds,6 bird limit
1999 17 days, 100 birds,6 bird limit
2000 19 days, 101 birds,6 bird limit
2001 19 days, 67 birds, 6 bird limit

Obviously 2001 was a bad year for everybody, but look at the years in the early 1990s...From 1991 to 1995 I killed a limit almost everyday I hunted and most of that hunting was on public land...More importantly, these were the years when I saw lots of ducks every day, all season long...We would have a quick hunt, then spend hours watching and calling ducks...I did not own a video camera back then but if that ever happens again, I wont even take my gun...It was awesome!

Then the limit goes up, the season gets longer and my hunting slacks off...Yes I still had good hunting in the late 1990s but I had to work harder at it and spend more money on it because I was hunting on private land...Interestingly, 1994-95 was the year that I killed my 16th and most recent banded duck...

CONCLUSION

I'm all for a permanent season of 40 ducks and 4 birds throughout the MS Flyway...With such a season, nobody in MS (except maybe the commerical guides) would care when the season ended...The composition of that 4 bird limit would fluctuate based on species specific populations but would NEVER, EVER consist of more than 1 hen of any species- NO MATTER WHAT.

We might have to shorten the season to 30 days and reduce the limit to 3 birds for a year or two, but after that I support a permanent 40 day/4 bird season until such time that the habitat situation/predator situation on the Prairie is fixed.

TAKE YOUR SHOTS.

HAMMER

I seem to recall reading somewhere that MS is third in birds shot behind Ark and La., but I don't recall where I read it. A reduced season for a few years would not bother me, either.

'Hammer'.....you might just get your wish....i.e. shorter season and lower limit.

I follow your logic about fewer days of 'pressure' on the birds (from hunters North of us) before the birds get here. That's fine for them, but we just don't get the same opportunity they do because of our climate. 'Ain't 'whining'.....it's just the way it is, down here.

I would think a greater percentage of THEIR days are conducive to seeing a sizeable concentration of waterfowl (even after 'ice-up'), whereas a small percentage of our days actually put birds 'on the move' to the point that we can be somewhat assured that the phenomenon of 'waterfowl migration' is occasionally still practiced......not like last season.

Down here, if we get 45 days, a LESSER percentage of those days (seemingly) are productive because the ducks seem to be elsewhere the rest of the time.....and I typically think that would be along the freeze line, which usually occurs NORTH of us.

I guess that affects me more because we hunt the river (exclusively) and ducks don't really USE the river (en mass) unless everything else is 'locked-up'......so we typically don't witness what field hunters in the Delta witness during the 'above freezing' days.

I tend to base my season on the quality of the 'opportunity' I had, to hunt.....and that doesn't necessarily mean how many days I get to hunt, but rather how conducive those days ARE for producing a 'concentration' of waterfowl in our area.

What I missed most about last year's season was just not SEEING the birds. That was made harder by the fact that it followed 3 of our 'best' years of waterfowl hunting.

RE: Gulfcoast

I'm not sure about 2000 and the 2001 numbers arent out yet (not until July) but the 1998 and 1999 numbers are as follows (retrieved kill):

1998 1999

ALA 188 M 191 M
ARK 1.4 MM 1.8 MM
ILL 490 M 419 M
IND 96 M 122 M
IOWA 282 M 161 M
KY 161 M 181 M
LA 2.6 MM 2.8 MM
MICH 350 M 338 M
MISS 427 M 331 M
MINN 683 M 658 M
MIZZO 483 M 322 M
OHIO 149 M 158 M
TENN 416 M 350 M
WISC 324 M 368 M

RE: Anatidae

Clearly the weather patterns are different now than they used to be...For example, during the past winter we only had 19 days when the temperature got to freezing here in Jackson...I did not say when the temperature averaged freezing, I said when the temperature GOT TO FREEZING...Thus "the extend the season due to weather" argument has even less validity now than before...

The problem with pushing our season back is that now the northern states are pushing their season forward and lets look at where the most ducks get killed- ARK, LA and MINN-
Seasons extended to the time when more ducks are around in those states means more dead ducks. That is bad for hunters everywhere except those states.

My point is this: The more ducks killed by hunters north of us, which includes Arkansas and parts of Louisiana, the fewer ducks we will see in Mississippi, especially the South Delta.

HAMMER

FYI:

This information was printed in the Star Tribune in Minneapolis, MN on Published Jan 2, 2002

Waterfowl

We won't really know how Minnesota's 120,000 duck hunters did last fall until duck harvest numbers are reported later this year. But based on anecdotal reports, "It was a better season than we anticipated," said Ray Norgaard, DNR wetland wildlife program leader.

An unusually mild fall kept lakes and sloughs ice-free, meaning for the first time in years hunters could hunt the entire 60-day season.

"The opener was pretty good, and we had much better weather from the standpoint of bringing birds into the state and keeping them here," Norgaard said.

Also, a long, cold and snowy winter last year killed off rough fish in some lakes and sloughs, improving duck habitat there, Norgaard said. Unfortunately, a wet spring negated the potential benefits, and mild weather this fall and winter could well be another setback, allowing rough fish to flourish.

In 2002, habitat improvement will continue to be key to improving Minnesota's waterfowl hunting. The DNR plans to launch a two-year plan aimed at improving waterfowl habitat and hunting. Another waterfowl issue to watch 2002: the future of the controversial spinning-wing duck decoy, which state officials want to ban.
**** End


From the Minnesota's Department of Natural Resources
Minnesota's share of the yearly Mississippi Flyway duck harvest.

1970s: 16%
Past 5 years: 10%
2011: Target: 16%

Note: Minnesota has one of the largest populations of duck hunters in the nation. During the 1970s Minnesota hunters harvested an average of one-sixth of the ducks annually harvested in the Mississippi Flyway. During the last five years, however, this share has dropped by 60% to roughly one-tenth of the annual flyway harvest. Harvest levels are influenced by many factors including local waterfowl production, fall weather patterns, migration habitat quality, and disturbances to migrating ducks.

To increase the duck hunting harvest in Minnesota, the DNR committed to an action plan developed with stakeholders to: 1) increase local duck production by restoring wetland habitat complexes; 2) improve fall migration habitat by better managing shallow lakes by eliminating carp and managing water levels where possible; and 3) reduce disturbances to migrating ducks by improving and enlarging refuges and resting areas.

Because it takes time for duck populations to respond to habitat restoration and protection efforts, and because of the influence of external factors such as weather and duck harvest in adjacent states, we will measure Minnesota's share of the duck harvest yearly for three years before drawing science-based conclusions about effectiveness of our efforts. The ambitious 2011 target aims to increase Minnesota's share of the Mississippi Flyway duck harvest from 1 duck in 10, to 1 duck in 6.
***End

Harvest Numbers in Quebec from 1974- 1999
Duck Harvest Link in Quebec

Has anyone ever compared the amount of breeding/feeding ground destruction by geese to the decline in duck numbers (if indeed there is a decline).

Oh wait! I forgot they don't even know if their estimated duck population numbers are correct!

It only seems logical that if you don't eat you can't live [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

I am by no means a biologist and I am sure they know what the squat they are talking about...or do they?

My experience has been good duck numbers and decent hunting (excluding last season) past three years maybe four.

I moved to MS about seven years ago. There are alot more opportunities to hunt public and even private land in MS (versus "The Land of Opportunity" in Arky Land........wait a minute I AM STILL A HOG FAN)

I have killed more ducks in MS than in AR
I have also hunted harder in MS
I have access to limited private land in MS
Enough with the I's

Regarding the season shortening.... well all I have to say about that is .... I guess I will hunt when I can.

I do believe the change in weather/climate/el-nino/global warming/damn geese/poachers (we all know they are people who bait ducks, kill over the limit, etc.) play a crucial roal in determining the seasons. These factors are all things which cannot be forecasted.

As for the duck numbers, how in the heck do they estimate numbers anyway.

If we have a shortened season (One that the Gov won't get spassed out over after all those people come running to him) then I guess we will hunt then.

I agree with the concept of a four bird, one hen only limit, and would support the idea of ruling out hens altogether if it were feasible, which it is certainly not. I am not sure that I believe that Illinois and Wisconsin kill more birds than we do, show me the statistics and I'll be satisfied. I have seen some tables in Ducks Unlimited magazine showing the overall kill and birds killed per hunter in the top ten duck hunting states. If my memory serves me correctly, Mississippi was in the top ten in both categories. I took your personal statistics one step further to see how many ducks per day you were killing.

Year # killed per day Limit
1990 2.21 3
1991 2.81 3
1992 2.92 3
1993 3.78 4
1994 3.69 4
1995 4.67 5
1996 3.73 5
1997 3.83 6
1998 5.10 6
1999 5.88 6
2000 5.31 6
2001 3.52 6

These statistics show that you have enjoyed consistently good hunting over the years and averaged over 75% of a limit every day. I suspect that my own percentages would be similar, and if I have time to compile them, I will provide the numbers. If that is the case, then what's the point of shortening the season, other than to get some of the less-dedicated hunters out of the field? It is true that hunting areas are more crowded nowadays, even private ones (I hunt private land about 99% of the time).
I have some good memories of those years of the 3 duck limit/30 day/pre-spinner duck seasons, but I would hardly be willing to trade fewer chances to hunt just to clear the marsh of competition. If there are sound biological reasons to reduce the season or limit, I am in full support. However, just a couple of days ago, I had an interesting discussion with a waterfowl biologist who knows alot more than I do about the forces behind the season length and bag limits. In his opinion, the kill makes little difference to annual mortality, and politics play much more into the regulations than does actual biology. Like most everyone else, I have to spend more time in the office than I would prefer, and I do not want to miss any opportunities to hunt unless restrictions are truly beneficial to the resource.

Hammer:

Where did you get those harvest numbers?

RE: Hambone

Well thought and well said although I disagree with the biologist you talked to...He is arguing that the ducks killed by hunters would die anyway (in other words that duck hunter harvests are substitute for natural mortality)...I suggest otherwise, that duck hunter harvests are additive...

I believe the ratio of adults to juveniles shows that we are shooting the breeding stock and that under these circumstances duck hunter harvests are definitely additive...In times of abundance, they might be substitutive but not in times of scarcity like now...

My point in putting my personal numbers out was that while the killing stayed consistently good for me, the hunting did not...The latter 90s required more time, more money and we saw far fewer ducks...

In fact I can count on one hand the number of times we had 1000s in the decoys during the last 5 years, whereas the previous 5 years (other than 1990 & 1991) this happened 5 times per year minimum...

I'll admit that I am a very seasoned hunter and have killed way more than my share of ducks such that it is the spectacle of waterfowl en masse in and over my decoys that lights my fire much more than killing a limit...I simply believe that lower bag limits and fewer days for hutners north of us means better hunting (using above definition) for Mississippi hunters- regardless of weather or season closing dates...

I'll also admit that there are many other factors involved but those seem to be the ones hunters can most control in the short run...If forced to decide, I would choose a smaller bag with no change in season length and no change in the opening and closing dates.

RE: DU Forester

USFWS, OMBM, Laurel MD, Administrative Report by Elwood Martin and Paul Padding

Regardless of why just give me the 30/3 if not no more than 40/4

It has nothing to do with them quantity it has everything to do with the quality.

I miss those 3 bird limits, Those were the days when hard core hunters were what you saw, heard, and bonded with.

When the days/limits changed commerialism took over and everyone that owned a gun became a duck hunter over night.

Excuse me for being selfish but I miss the good old days.

After looking at you guys stats for the past ten years I'm going to keep my mouth shut. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] but I will say that I have had a very good 10 years.

Hammer, there is no doubt about the sight of bringing in a giant flock of birds in over the decoys - it's what truly makes the hunt. About 10 years ago, my cousin married a guy who was a very seasoned duck hunter, but he had never been forced to let the birds light without shooting into the flock. On our first hunt together, I thought he was going to pop a blood vessel when I told him to wait as the first group of twenty landed in front of us. Four or five hundred more sat down right after that and we still held our fire. My Golden Retriever, Crockett, was on point at a big mallard ten feet in front of his nose. We got a limit that day, but the big flock never heard a shot...truly magical. Needless to say, my new cousin-in-law had a life-changing experience that morning. Except for last season, I haven't noticed a decline in duck numbers at our place in Coahoma County. What part of the state do you hunt?

Hambone:

Getting back to you on your question...

We hunt the south MS Delta and north LA Delta near Satartia, Holly Bluff and Yazoo City in MS and near Tallulah in LA...

There have certainly been habitat changes in the South MS Delta especially with regards to WRP removing grainfield feed sources and the Corps reforesting the Lake George Area but at the same time many landowners have put their land in the DU Partners Program, installed wells, etc so their has also been lots of new habitat created...Likewise the State's management of Mahannah- leaving 1000s of acres of grainfields unhunted all season- could affect waterfowl use in our area, but all of those things aside, the supposed doubling of the fall flight should have offset these things so I believe it is the hunting pressure north of us due to longer season and bigger bag limits that are the culprit...

We all know that the fall flight increases were probably exaggerated but unless DU and FWS concocted one helluva a Big Lie there had to be some increases...I never saw those ducks and I figure it was because the increased ducks did exist but they were killed before they got to me...

Are you saying you SAW more ducks in Coahoma County during the late 90s than you SAW in the early 90s?

HAMMER

Hammer,

I agree with you about the amount of new land developed in the south delta but, before Mahannah was a WMA even less of it was huntable. Back when it was the semi-private hunting grounds of a late friend of mine nothing before the levee was huntable. In fact for most of the season the fields were all but off limits. I know because I got to hunt some of them on the rare occasions the men who hunted the area allowed folk in there. The big sanctuary to the right of the main gravel road just before the levee was always left unhunted. So I guess we can't count that as a detriment.
Then again, when all the farmers in the area got wind of what they could lease a single pit for I saw a ton of wells going in and farms being chopped up into small single blind "holes" for lease.
On a side note it look like you and I cover a lot of the same ground. I killed my first duck in the Big Tupe at Panther Swamp, and hunted there evvery year till the early ninties.

Maybe we'll cross paths one of these days.

Take care,

M.B.

Hammer, no question about seing more ducks in the late 90's than in the early 90's, on our place. The 98-99 and 99-2000 seaasons were some of the best ever. In all honesty, however, we had water when alot of areas were dry, and that certainly helped. I would still say that all things considered, the numbers were better in the latter part of the 90's than in the earlier, but that's like comparing prime rib to filet mignon - it was all great!

Hammer,
i dont know if it is all about shooting the ducks rather than being out with the friends watching the ducks. I have set and watched the ducks many of afternoons and I just like being out on the water with the ducks. I try to hunt everyday of the season and I have hunted AR just as much as MS and there are more ducks in Ar.

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