DuckSouth.com

alright guys, can anyone explain to me in some detail what exactly force fetch is and how to do it...i'm not in a finanial position where i can afford training and to be honest, i have been pleased w/ my dog's progress and haven't really considered it...but, it seems that it may help my dog's training...i have also heard that this can do as much harm if not performed correctly, which is also why i haven't attempted it...he is eight months old and marks doubles well, stays on "line" while retrieving a dummy and another is thrown, etc...having said this, do you guys think that FF may cause a regression...i am using wolters "water dog" as my guide, although i think he is too much of a stickler for time tables so i am going on my dogs on ability and take things prob. too slow sometimes (i want to make sure that next year the dog is an aid not hindrance in the blind) so if you guys think it will make a huge difference i'll give it a shot...just want to know how to do it...thanks, justin

You can find more information about forces fetching at the mike lardy web site. If can get a hold of his series of articles for them one is on force fetching. I would still recomend having a pro do it for you. You can some times work a deal out with them by becomeing a apprentice helper after work and maybe get a price break. tehy could always use free labor to help them train their dogs. Now is especially a good time for you since it gets dark so late. I can recomend a good trainer in Reed Trusty at Bear Creek Kennels in Morgan City, MS. He would do a fine job. If you have to pay it should not take more than two weeks to leave your dog there. Good luck!

I force fetched my dog myself going exactly by the Mike Lardy method on his "Total Retriever Training" tape. She picked up on it quickly. That was over a year ago and this is my first dog like you. Find someone with the tape...read the articles...or pay someone. If your dog is eager to please and not too hard headed, it shouldn't be too bad of a deal.
Maybe I got lucky since this was my first dog so you might want to listen to some of these other guys like Big Lou who have trained numerous dogs...All I am saying is that it can be done. It will take alot of patience and reading your dog.
Good luck...I hope this helps.

Let me just say I personally want all of my dogs force fetched, it does make things alot and I mean alot easier as they get older. I recommend starting dogs at 6-7 months, when they have lost the baby teeth. I have force fetched a few dogs and I have one now that I will be starting FF in a few weeks. I have watched the lardy videos and read his articles, I made copies of his articles and I go back and read them often, but the best learning is hands on BY SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!!! I learned by watching a pro trainer that has trained 2 of my dogs and he taught me how to do it right, his name Charlie Moody, he lives here in louisville and I would recommend him to anybody. As far as doing FF yourself, I suggest you get a FF bumper, it really makes things go alot better and it looks nothing like a regular bumper, so they won't relate the pain of FF with the retrieveing bumpers. If you want to do it yourself, defintely watch some videos on FF or read all you can about it, personally I perfer the ear pinch method.

Goooooooo TIGERS........

Learning to force fetch a dog from a book is like learning to make love by watching a porno. Yeah, something will happen, but odds are, it could be a LOT better.

FF is a tool you will have forever. Everything you train from now on is based in the job you did on ff. Its worth getting the help to do it first time around. Its not fun, its the only part of dog training thats not fun, but its a must for a dog that always goes, and always holds. If you cant go the pro route, find someone to help you. A local retriver club is a good start, and find an expereinced person to show you the ropes. Timing is EVERYTHING, and no book can show you how to get the timing. FF done with proper timing, is ff done with a minimal amount of pressure, something you should always strive for in your training.

As far as a detailed description... hard to explain. First, dogs dont think like humans do. FF basically makes them have an obligation to do what they love. You say sit, dog doesnt sit, you whack in rump right? Its an enforcable command, you can make him sit. Well, ff does that with fetch. You can actually control dogs mouth the way you SIT can control his rear.
First you teach HOLD. Then, you put bumper (or buck) in front of dogs mouth, and say FETCH. Most dogs have been played with enough on fetch to take bumper. Then you grab ear, bend over collar tab, and pinch ear with thumbnail while saying fetch... as dog takes bumper, you release pressure. Soon dog figgers out, complaince ends the pressure. Complaince has to be replaced with obligation, and thats dones be physically restraining dog while hes reaching for bumper, with ear pinch (almost need 3 hands!). Soon, bumper goes on ground, and dogs reaches for it to end pressure.

More advanced forms of ff include stick fetch. Bumpers in row, walking at heel, FETCH command, and a swat with heeling stick across rump as dog grabs for bumper. Dog soon belives he can beat stick pressure. He decides the faster he does his job, he can beat the whack. And hes right. Collar fetch is simialr, a walking fetch drill, where a nick replaces stick pressure, and dog learns to work through nick.

Why more advanced forms? Well, how do you make a dog run a blind, when he doesnt want too? Its easy if hes ff. Cause you took that ff dog who would scoop a bumper up, and set the bumper 20 foot away and commanded FETCH. Soon, the distance increased and BACK was substitued. At 100 yards the pile is now, and the dog is sent with BACK, nick, BACK... hes knows he MUST go, and is happy to do so. And when done properly, the dog will ALWAYS go, first time, every time. He must. Its his job, and he loves his job. You teach casting the same way, bumper over dogs head while hes look at you, and a FETCH command. Soon, fetch is replaced with back and hand signal. Overs are added after back is 100%, with good attuide and momentum. And all these things are made MUCH easier by a dog properly force fetched, who understands his job, and is happy to do it. The month of hell that ff is, is worth it to have something iron clad, the dog always knows, and understands.

Check out dobbsdogs.com or oakhillkennels.com as well as lardys site for more ff info. travis

i like to hang my duck strap on a limb and train the pup to hang the ducks head in the ring.... forget the duck to hand thing...

judge jb

I would agree whole heartley with Tigermania about using Charlie Moody if you are willing to drive to Louisville. He has helped me many times when I was stuck. His first goal is to keep your dog happy. After picking up my dogs from him I can honestly say I don't think that they want to leave because they are having so much fun! He gets my dogs everytime my wife and I go out of town. Charlie Moody has my recomendation 100%. He helped me with some hitches in my dog's get up and got his senior AKC title. He will also be training him for Master and his son for senior starting this August if he still has an opening. Hey Tigermania you gouys got anymore Field trial stuff to run Jazz in, I would like to go and watch her?

Hey Big Lou, check your e-mail, I sent you a reply about jazz and I also needs to know if you have any information on the judges seminar that Black Warrior Retriever Club is hosting this summer. I feel it would do me good to know more about what a judge is looking for and expecting from a handler at a trial or hunt test.

Goooooooo TIGERS........

Hey Big Lou, check your e-mail, I sent you a reply about jazz and I also needs to know if you have any information on the judges seminar that Black Warrior Retriever Club is hosting this summer. I feel it would do me good to know more about what a judge is looking for and expecting from a handler at a trial or hunt test.
P.S. Goosebruce is on the money!!!! I agree totally that is the proper way FF is to be done.

Goooooo TIGERS.......

thanks guys, i honestly didn't know it was so involved...i believe i'll try a retriever club first since i am now in jackson...this has helped alot, esp. since i didn't even know where to begin...oh and judge, i got him doing that already, started him "real" early as a pup, but last year he lost a lot of respect for me i think cause i didn't kill a darn thang [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] justin