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Ok...far from an expert...but I think that my dog is scared of getting into the water.....he was slow about it during season...but once he got in he went straight to the bird and back to me....well...you would think that as hot as it is, he would be running ready to get in the water to get the bumper...wrong....all he does is run up to the waters edge and look at it then start meandering around the edge.....ok...so hears the kicker...I throw him a fun bumper into the water and he hits it pretty darn good....what is the deal?

How old is he now? How old when introduced to water? Any bad experiences? ie cold water, hitting a submerged log, stump, etc? What is level of overall drive and birdiness? Is he chocolate? Sorry. I'm funnin'...but couldn't resist. Ever do water force?

He will be three years old in October. He fairly aggressive on land....to the bird but so so on the return......no bad experiences that I know of in the water.....first time that he was in any really cold water was this past hunting season and he seemed to do fine once he got in....never force retrieved in the water...

Thats what they call holes in the training. Comes from not going exactly by the book. And especially moving too fast to the next thing. I know cause I got more holes than swiss cheese.

Maybe you could start all over. You could get another dog.

Or you could get a bandaid. It's called Gator water force. Get a small body of water with a clean bank. Set a pile on the other side. Straight across. We don't want any other issues here. Mark the pile with a bucket. Start from the bank. Throw a bumper to the pile and send dog. Now there should be absolutely no question where the destination is.

Next use force and send on a back cast from your side. Do it about 2 more times from there, using force when sending. I used praise on the return and a fun bumper every now and then, but that's just me. Then gradually back away from water edge and send with force. And you should be able to send without force and get the same results pretty soon.

If you are not using a collar, your force can be the stick. Don't know if I recomend it but this worked for me. Hold dog by collar and swat rear end 3 times real fast, doesn't have to be hard. Dog feels pressure. You release your hold on collar and dog leaves line and feels release from pressure and message is sent. If'n he scoots away to chest deep and turns around and gives you a "what the hell is going on here look", thats good, just give him a loud verbal back. Should go smooth on the next send.

I skipped water force like you did. Guess I forgot or thought I didn't need it and had my mind on some other destination. As a result, I will probably need this tune up every so often. The above is guaranteed to have worked yesterday. There is no guarantee it'l work tomorrow for you!

Sounds like a mental block, but there has to be more to it than just decidong one day that water is not fun - water should have been made fun from tthe time the dog was a pup if not a pup during the winter.

the littlest thing sometimes can turn a dog off of the simplest things - how old was the dog when the dog went hunting?

Has another dog ever jumped on the dog and submerged the dog?

Sure water force can make the dog go, but I would rather try another approach a more positive manner - one being stake the dog out or hold the dog on honor and let your dog watch another dog work until your dog can take it no longer.

Once you have smplified and tried and still no response then move to pressure if you really want to make the dog go in.

Or like posted get another dog start over - but at least give your dog the chance it deserves to be a retriever.

You said that if you throw a happy bumper the dog will go - do you do this often throw for yourself - if so the mental block may be a gunner in the field and not understanding what you are asking.

David

DW is right on the money. Dogs associate things differently than we do. Hes got rules and water on the same page, as a bad thing. Figger out why, show him a better way, and only apply pressure when its apporiate. Pressure wont fix a pressure related problem, but it sure can make one worse. travis