WRP Question

[redspeckable]

JaMak, Novacaine, DanP, Acornman or anyone else knowledgeable about the WRP tracts...

Last year it was brought up that the need to thin WRP/CRP hardwoods is recognized by NRCS and WRP partners. It was also stated, "its just a matter of getting the program policy and guidelines to allow it. That is something Delta Wildlife will be working pretty hard on this year."

Any updates on this or where we might be from a conservatory standpoint? Would be glad to be a part of the force that gets this ball rolling or staying on top of NRCS to make it happen.

[hdforester]

I know there were three 6 acres test plots done in south Warren County this past fall. One was mulched (not sure but think they mulched 2 rows and left 2 rows), one was chainsawed, and one used hack and squirt (deadened). I'm sure they will use these to evaluate effectiveness and cost. Not sure if these are the only tests done but only ones I'm aware of. Acornman could give update but don't think they have nailed anything down. The wheels of government turn very slow.

[stang67]

So are there NO privately owned WRP tracts that have had thinning operations done yet? I'd guess that some of the earliest and best stands are well past the point where they need it, huh?

[redspeckable]

I'd guess that some of the earliest and best stands are well past the point where they need it, huh?

A RESOUNDING YES!!!! I'd be more than happy to allow them to "test" my tract for effectiveness. 17 years in and almost a 100% survival rate. We're becoming a desert underneath...

Someone needs to help landowners out since we can't do it ourselves. I'd imagine most would even consider cost sharing to have it done.

[kb7722]

WRP is a different story, but CRP contract duration is 10-15 years. First thinning for pines is around 15 years. Thin after contract expires.

[Blackduck]

The fact that the thinning issue hasn't been resolved is amazing. What did they think was going to happen.


they should checkerboard cut the wrp. Cut two leave two, cut two leave two.

[420 racin]

I have said this before but these days we plant too many TPA. In the reforestation efforts infancy, we required more TPA because seedling stock was not as good as today, nor was site prep, planting methods, and subsequently mortality rates were expected to be high. As everything improved, so did survival, and like said earlier, it's not unheard of to have survival rates in the 90% range. There have been some test plots/studies done on this at Tensas, but it hasn't been long enough to evaluate any results yet. I have personally planted and/or taken survival on over 27K acres of replant in the MS Delta, most all of your WMA's that have replanted areas. From Holly Bluff to Belzoni, and the one thign I can tell you for sure is that we are planting too many TPA. We are setting ourselves up for a Pre-commercial thin, like redspeckable siad, it becomes a vurtual desert underneath.

[hdforester]

I have said this before but these days we plant too many TPA. In the reforestation efforts infancy, we required more TPA because seedling stock was not as good as today, nor was site prep, planting methods, and subsequently mortality rates were expected to be high. As everything improved, so did survival, and like said earlier, it's not unheard of to have survival rates in the 90% range. There have been some test plots/studies done on this at Tensas, but it hasn't been long enough to evaluate any results yet. I have personally planted and/or taken survival on over 27K acres of replant in the MS Delta, most all of your WMA's that have replanted areas. From Holly Bluff to Belzoni, and the one thign I can tell you for sure is that we are planting too many TPA. We are setting ourselves up for a Pre-commercial thin, like redspeckable siad, it becomes a vurtual desert underneath.

If I'm not mistaken I think the minimum number per acre has recently gone up from 302 to 436. Go figure. Okay for trying to produce timber but horrible for habitat.

[hdforester]

I'd guess that some of the earliest and best stands are well past the point where they need it, huh?

A RESOUNDING YES!!!! I'd be more than happy to allow them to "test" my tract for effectiveness. 17 years in and almost a 100% survival rate. We're becoming a desert underneath...

Someone needs to help landowners out since we can't do it ourselves. I'd imagine most would even consider cost sharing to have it done.

You are not alone. Get in touch with acornman. They may let you do some "test" areas. Wouldn't hurt to ask. I can pm you email address if you'd like.

[420 racin]

I know the Corps still replants at 302 TPA. We have replanted close to 35K-40K acres through out MS, LA Delta. Oldest was planted in 1990 and youngest was planted this year and have had some planted every year in between. Though we are planting less and less because we can't find large tracts to buy anymore. it is turning into small few hundred acres here and there. Which works for our purpose, but makes it where the State can't manage the small tracts as WMA's. Most all of the WMA's are owned by the Corps and ths state just manages them.

[hdforester]

The Forestry Commission has gone to 436 per acre with 50% oak and 50% "trainers" such as Sweetgum. I thought they had used WRPs guidelines. This is for FRDP- the state cost-share program. Do I know you racin? Sent you a PM.

[novacaine]

Preaching to the choir...............................................foresters are hung up on that high density for some reason.

My argument has always been:
Are we in timber production or bottomland hardwood restoration. With the current plant density's/ species mix.........at what point in time will this begin to look like something natural?50 yrs,100 yrs,150 yrs.

I am not a forester so i will step back now.

[hdforester]

Preaching to the choir...............................................foresters are hung up on that high density for some reason.

My argument has always been:
Are we in timber production or bottomland hardwood restoration. With the current plant density's/ species mix.........at what point in time will this begin to look like something natural?50 yrs,100 yrs,150 yrs.

I am not a forester so i will step back now.

I can't wait to see what these stands look like in 150 years. Waterfowl may even come back.

[Bercy]

On the TPA issue, what is an approximate TPA on any decent south Delta hardwood stand that has not been cut in the past ~30-50 years?

[hdforester]

On the TPA issue, what is an approximate TPA on any decent south Delta hardwood stand that has not been cut in the past ~30-50 years?

You talking about sawtimber size trees? That would be nearly impossible to answer without looking at it. There are so many variables involved. Every stand is different. Some of the worst stands I look at "have never been cut"