You wont go there will you PML? You KNOW I have the moral high ground because no less a spiritual leader than THE POPE is leading the charge against GW...
But this is not about you and me- this is about right and wrong, good and evil, God, Satan, Jesus and humanity- same as it ever was- another battle for the soul of humanity. Open your eyes.
To change directions a bit, one of the arguments of the GW naysayers is that regulation of carbon pollution will "WRECK THE ECONOMY"...If the economy isnt wrecked already, what do you call the current state of affairs?
There is no doubt that the GW Naysayer crowd will blame all ills in the US economy on carbon regulation if and when it happens so let me beat you to the punch with the following:
(A) Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac: Current situation is that to bail these entities out of the bad loans they are holding would cost every American man, woman and child to the tune of $25,000 and would DOUBLE the national debt in the process.
(B) Speaking of the National Debt, it is at an all time high and headed higher.
(C) The US dollar is all time lows and headed lower.
Three little facts that demonstrate that our economy is in shambles already and has nothing to do with environmental wackos, GW regulation or anything else you GW naysayers will try to blame it on. The hard times are upon us and they are just getting started but one thing is for certain- if we as a species do not take drastic steps to curb carbon pollution soon, the hard times will be much, much harder. Don't take my word for it, take the word of 16 US government intelligence agencies.
Take Me Back Tuesday: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
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mudsucker
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
If'n the Pope is for it, the Vatican MUST have some financial intrest as they are ALL about money! 
Long Live the Black Democrat!
GEAUX LSU!
WHO DAT!
DO,DU AND DW!
GEAUX LSU!
WHO DAT!
DO,DU AND DW!
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rjohnson
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
Hammer wrote:(A) Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac: Current situation is that to bail these entities out of the bad loans they are holding would cost every American man, woman and child to the tune of $25,000 and would DOUBLE the national debt in the process.
The articles I have read said Freddie/Fannie debts are equal to about half of our current national deficit. So if we bail them out that is only a 50% increase in our national deficit. Just sayin'.
And why in the world would they want to any more strain on the ecomony with more regulation of carbon output? Talk about kicking us when we're down.
http://www.lithicIT.com My biz
Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
MEMO TO RJ: BECAUSE IF WE DON'T SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE CARBON POLLUTION, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO BE THE LEAST OF OUR PROBLEMS. AGAIN, DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT- INSTEAD READ THIS.
U.S. Joins G-8 Plan To Halve Emissions
2050 Pledge Marks Shift on Issue for Bush
By Michael Abramowitz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 9, 2008; Page A01
RUSUTSU, Japan, July 9 -- The United States for the first time joined the major industrialized countries Tuesday in committing to try to halve greenhouse-gas emissions by 2050. President Bush immediately began promoting the plan with skeptical developing country leaders who would be integral to its success.
After months of negotiations, Bush agreed, along with other leaders of the Group of Eight countries gathered here, to a joint communique that declares the countries will "consider and adopt" reductions of at least 50 percent as part of a new U.N. treaty to be negotiated in Copenhagen at the end of 2009. The step was the most recent sign of a gradual shift in Bush's approach to combating global warming.
The leaders said they expect developing countries such as China and India, which are also major greenhouse-gas polluters, to promise "meaningful" actions to reduce emissions. That has been a key objective for Bush but could also be an obstacle for the plan: Those countries have said repeatedly that the industrialized world, as the biggest polluter, must take the lead and bear the greatest burden.
Bush and G-8 leaders met Wednesday with Chinese President Hu Jintao, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the heads of other developing countries, hoping to come to some kind of agreement on a joint way forward on climate change.
The 17 countries issued a statement calling global warming "one of the great global challenges of our time," and pledged to back a United Nations effort to conclude new climate pact by 2009. But deep differences between the two groups remain.
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In addition to the 2050 pledge, the G-8 leaders also promised in the communique to make cuts in emissions in the "midterm," though they did not set specific numerical targets.
The communique's language drew the disapproval of many environmental groups, which said the targets were weak or ambiguous. They accused the summit leaders of not addressing fundamental differences among themselves on matters such as speed and method, resulting in a plan with little real meaning.
The G-8 leaders "have failed the world again," Daniel Mittler, Greenpeace International's climate expert, said in a statement. "While the Arctic is melting, the G-8 are postponing action. Instead of climate protection, the world got nothing but flowery words."
The environmental minister of South Africa, one of several developing countries whose support on climate change is being courted, called the long-term goal an "empty slogan" and took a veiled shot at the United States. "We know very well that there are many countries in the G-8 grouping that share our ambitious expectations, and therefore it is regrettable that the lowest common denominator in the G-8 determined the level of ambition," said the minister, Marthinus van Schalkwyk.
Other people who follow the issue closely, including Europeans who have criticized Bush's approach, saw significance in the move by a president who came to office questioning the science and impact of climate change and, until now, had refused to commit to any numerical goal.
At the last G-8 summit, in Germany a year ago, the United States alone refused to adopt the 50 percent target. While the White House has since said Bush would accept binding midterm targets as long as the developing world went along, European officials called it important that he agreed to place the language in the G-8 communique.
"I think that President Bush has moved considerably over the past one to two years," said Jos Delbeke, a top environmental official at the European Commission, the executive arm of the European Union.
U.S. Joins G-8 Plan To Halve Emissions
2050 Pledge Marks Shift on Issue for Bush
By Michael Abramowitz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 9, 2008; Page A01
RUSUTSU, Japan, July 9 -- The United States for the first time joined the major industrialized countries Tuesday in committing to try to halve greenhouse-gas emissions by 2050. President Bush immediately began promoting the plan with skeptical developing country leaders who would be integral to its success.
After months of negotiations, Bush agreed, along with other leaders of the Group of Eight countries gathered here, to a joint communique that declares the countries will "consider and adopt" reductions of at least 50 percent as part of a new U.N. treaty to be negotiated in Copenhagen at the end of 2009. The step was the most recent sign of a gradual shift in Bush's approach to combating global warming.
The leaders said they expect developing countries such as China and India, which are also major greenhouse-gas polluters, to promise "meaningful" actions to reduce emissions. That has been a key objective for Bush but could also be an obstacle for the plan: Those countries have said repeatedly that the industrialized world, as the biggest polluter, must take the lead and bear the greatest burden.
Bush and G-8 leaders met Wednesday with Chinese President Hu Jintao, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the heads of other developing countries, hoping to come to some kind of agreement on a joint way forward on climate change.
The 17 countries issued a statement calling global warming "one of the great global challenges of our time," and pledged to back a United Nations effort to conclude new climate pact by 2009. But deep differences between the two groups remain.
ad_icon
In addition to the 2050 pledge, the G-8 leaders also promised in the communique to make cuts in emissions in the "midterm," though they did not set specific numerical targets.
The communique's language drew the disapproval of many environmental groups, which said the targets were weak or ambiguous. They accused the summit leaders of not addressing fundamental differences among themselves on matters such as speed and method, resulting in a plan with little real meaning.
The G-8 leaders "have failed the world again," Daniel Mittler, Greenpeace International's climate expert, said in a statement. "While the Arctic is melting, the G-8 are postponing action. Instead of climate protection, the world got nothing but flowery words."
The environmental minister of South Africa, one of several developing countries whose support on climate change is being courted, called the long-term goal an "empty slogan" and took a veiled shot at the United States. "We know very well that there are many countries in the G-8 grouping that share our ambitious expectations, and therefore it is regrettable that the lowest common denominator in the G-8 determined the level of ambition," said the minister, Marthinus van Schalkwyk.
Other people who follow the issue closely, including Europeans who have criticized Bush's approach, saw significance in the move by a president who came to office questioning the science and impact of climate change and, until now, had refused to commit to any numerical goal.
At the last G-8 summit, in Germany a year ago, the United States alone refused to adopt the 50 percent target. While the White House has since said Bush would accept binding midterm targets as long as the developing world went along, European officials called it important that he agreed to place the language in the G-8 communique.
"I think that President Bush has moved considerably over the past one to two years," said Jos Delbeke, a top environmental official at the European Commission, the executive arm of the European Union.
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rjohnson
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
I still think the sun is the biggest factor in the temperature.
http://www.lithicIT.com My biz
Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
rjohnson wrote:I still think the sun is the biggest factor in the temperature.
You're going to hell mister.
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Bully
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
I have read this whole thread and I have a couple of questions for Hammer. Hammer, do you believe in global warming? If so, do you believe it is man made? If so, tell me more about it.
Justin
Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
A) Do I believe the Earth is getting hotter? Absolutely...Best evidence is melting glaciers and sea ice in Antarctica and Greenland...Figures lie and liars figure...There are all sorts of ways to spin the statistics on global temperatures but when Greenland and Antarctica start melting, what else do you need to know? Do a Google on this and you will find satellite imagery that shows the loss in sea ice at the poles with your own two eyes....
B) Do I believe that the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is increasing as a result of human activity? Absolutely...Ice cores, tree rings and other scientific analysis has proven beyond ALL DOUBT that there is almost twice as much CO2 in the atmosphere now compared to 250 years ago...There are no natural factors that explain this...
C) Do I believe that carbon dioxide is a SIGNIFICANT factor for increasing global temperatures? Absolutely...The connection between CO2 and increased temperatures is absolute and irrefutable...
D) Do I believe that carbon dioxide is the ONLY factor for increasing global temperatures? I am not qualified to answer that question but it doesn't matter since carbon pollution is the factor that mankind can do something about and since changing the composition of the atmosphere is changing the chemistry of the oceans and that is not good regardless of natural factors that might be contributing to global warming
It is D that has been the subject of much debate on this thread...My position has been and remains that it does not matter IF there are natural factors involved in increasing global temperatures (sun activity, etc) since there is nothing we can do about them...But CO2 emissions are clearly a significant factor and there is something we can do about them and we better get busy before Greenland melts (20'-25' rise in sea levels worldwide) and even worse, Antarctica melts (150'-200' rise in sea levels worldwide)...Note that the temperatures at the poles are rising 3 times faster than elsewhere in the world....
Also, what I believe or don't believe is of minor importance...What counts is that the leaders of virtually every country in the world, virtually all the major scientific bodies, virtually all the major companies, etc. are moving forward with initiatives to reduce future carbon emissions and sequester existing emissions...Meanwhile, the MSD GW Naysayers gnash their teeth and tell me I am in environmental extremist despite the overwhelming evidence on my side of the issue (not to mention that I hunt 100+ days per year among a host of other lifestyle characteristics that clearly illustrate that I am not an environmental extremist)...
It makes not a tinkers damn to me who brings this to the publics attention, how big a house he lives in or how much electricity he uses...This is not about Al Gore or his ethics, morality, etc...The facts are the facts and the facts are that ocean levels are rising as a result of melting sea ice, ocean chemistry is changing as a result of carbon pollution and ducks don't migrate into the MS Delta anywhere near like they did when I started hunting them almost 40 years ago or when my father or grand- father hunted them going back almost to the turn of the century.
MSDers can stick their heads in the sand or they can get involved with their conservation organizations and push those organizations to take a leadership role in fighting future carbon emissions and sequestrating current emissions. This will be one of the major- if not THE MAJOR- challenges of our lifetimes and history will judge us how we handle it.
B) Do I believe that the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is increasing as a result of human activity? Absolutely...Ice cores, tree rings and other scientific analysis has proven beyond ALL DOUBT that there is almost twice as much CO2 in the atmosphere now compared to 250 years ago...There are no natural factors that explain this...
C) Do I believe that carbon dioxide is a SIGNIFICANT factor for increasing global temperatures? Absolutely...The connection between CO2 and increased temperatures is absolute and irrefutable...
D) Do I believe that carbon dioxide is the ONLY factor for increasing global temperatures? I am not qualified to answer that question but it doesn't matter since carbon pollution is the factor that mankind can do something about and since changing the composition of the atmosphere is changing the chemistry of the oceans and that is not good regardless of natural factors that might be contributing to global warming
It is D that has been the subject of much debate on this thread...My position has been and remains that it does not matter IF there are natural factors involved in increasing global temperatures (sun activity, etc) since there is nothing we can do about them...But CO2 emissions are clearly a significant factor and there is something we can do about them and we better get busy before Greenland melts (20'-25' rise in sea levels worldwide) and even worse, Antarctica melts (150'-200' rise in sea levels worldwide)...Note that the temperatures at the poles are rising 3 times faster than elsewhere in the world....
Also, what I believe or don't believe is of minor importance...What counts is that the leaders of virtually every country in the world, virtually all the major scientific bodies, virtually all the major companies, etc. are moving forward with initiatives to reduce future carbon emissions and sequester existing emissions...Meanwhile, the MSD GW Naysayers gnash their teeth and tell me I am in environmental extremist despite the overwhelming evidence on my side of the issue (not to mention that I hunt 100+ days per year among a host of other lifestyle characteristics that clearly illustrate that I am not an environmental extremist)...
It makes not a tinkers damn to me who brings this to the publics attention, how big a house he lives in or how much electricity he uses...This is not about Al Gore or his ethics, morality, etc...The facts are the facts and the facts are that ocean levels are rising as a result of melting sea ice, ocean chemistry is changing as a result of carbon pollution and ducks don't migrate into the MS Delta anywhere near like they did when I started hunting them almost 40 years ago or when my father or grand- father hunted them going back almost to the turn of the century.
MSDers can stick their heads in the sand or they can get involved with their conservation organizations and push those organizations to take a leadership role in fighting future carbon emissions and sequestrating current emissions. This will be one of the major- if not THE MAJOR- challenges of our lifetimes and history will judge us how we handle it.
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hotty toddy
- Duck South Addict
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- Location: Collinsville, MS
Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
Hammer wrote: ducks don't migrate into the MS Delta anywhere near like they did when I started hunting them almost 40 years ago or when my father or grand- father hunted them going back almost to the turn of the century.
Thats not global warming that is global DU shortstopping in the midwest
BE STILL, HERE THEY COME, BE STILL!!!!!!!!!!!
"Yeah, I got TP..........2 dollars a square"
"Yeah, I got TP..........2 dollars a square"
Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
Hammer,
You are truly drinking the Global Warming (or is it Climate Change today?) Kool-Aid! Good grief, man, get a grip. You keep stating "facts" and how "everyone" in the scientific community is drinking the same Kool-Aid but apparently have not read the dozens of articles that various folks have posted that address dissenting opinions of scientists and organizations.
If you and the other wack-jobs get your way and force the US to "sequester" carbon (which means regulate our lives and eventually pay penalties for our "carbon footprints"), our economy and that of other countries that do the same thing will be crippled beyond belief. China, India, and other countries can't wait for us to be so stupid as to sign the Kyoto Protocol or agree to some other similarly riduculous treaty so they can mop up on our conceivable destruction. These countries have no intention of ever being so stupid, and, even if they did sign some treaty or agreement, they would never abide by it and would defy the UN or anyone else to enforce it. I have been over there and dealt some with the Chinese government so I can tell you first hand that it is like the Wild West over there when it comes to industrial espionage, etc. This whole idea of "carbon offsets" is so stupid it amazes me the number of people who have been duped by it and are touting it. Absolutely ludicrous!!!!
I think we need to be wise and show good stewardship of the resources God has entrusted us with. However, to "go hog wild and pig crazy" (as my Dad is fond of saying) and to talk about how the oceans will rise 200' when the ice caps will supposedly melt (I thought they have actually found one of the ice packs has been getting thicker, by the way), children will all die, we will be roasted by the heat on the earth, yada, yada, yada, because of our supposed addition of CO2 to the atmosphere is way off base. Again, I bring you back to the discussions of the scientific community when I was a kid about "global cooling" and the pending ice age and the most recent turning of the GW crowd from our supposedly overheating the earth to the climate change argument (since, by golly, things have actually been cooling for quite a few years).
Here's some homework for you: How about you go back and investigate the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere immediately following significant volcanic eruptions and forest fires in the US and anywhere else? I would bet dollars to doughnuts, the evidence would be overwhelming that these events put far more CO2, etc. into the atmosphere than man or our "stuff" can do over a number of years. It's interesting that the world has undergone significant volcanic eruptions and huge forest fires (large forest fires now are at least contained to some extent--when there were lots more forests around, I would bet the fires were even bigger and more expansive) and has kept on ticking just fine.
I am no atmospheric expert, but I know this whole GW, climate change, CO2 reduction argument does not getting anywhere close to passing the "smell test" of someone who is trying to look at the various theories and considerations to see what makes sense. Keep on writing, if you want, but please realize you probably lost credibility a couple of hundred of posts ago.
Stick a fork in me; I'm done.
You are truly drinking the Global Warming (or is it Climate Change today?) Kool-Aid! Good grief, man, get a grip. You keep stating "facts" and how "everyone" in the scientific community is drinking the same Kool-Aid but apparently have not read the dozens of articles that various folks have posted that address dissenting opinions of scientists and organizations.
If you and the other wack-jobs get your way and force the US to "sequester" carbon (which means regulate our lives and eventually pay penalties for our "carbon footprints"), our economy and that of other countries that do the same thing will be crippled beyond belief. China, India, and other countries can't wait for us to be so stupid as to sign the Kyoto Protocol or agree to some other similarly riduculous treaty so they can mop up on our conceivable destruction. These countries have no intention of ever being so stupid, and, even if they did sign some treaty or agreement, they would never abide by it and would defy the UN or anyone else to enforce it. I have been over there and dealt some with the Chinese government so I can tell you first hand that it is like the Wild West over there when it comes to industrial espionage, etc. This whole idea of "carbon offsets" is so stupid it amazes me the number of people who have been duped by it and are touting it. Absolutely ludicrous!!!!
I think we need to be wise and show good stewardship of the resources God has entrusted us with. However, to "go hog wild and pig crazy" (as my Dad is fond of saying) and to talk about how the oceans will rise 200' when the ice caps will supposedly melt (I thought they have actually found one of the ice packs has been getting thicker, by the way), children will all die, we will be roasted by the heat on the earth, yada, yada, yada, because of our supposed addition of CO2 to the atmosphere is way off base. Again, I bring you back to the discussions of the scientific community when I was a kid about "global cooling" and the pending ice age and the most recent turning of the GW crowd from our supposedly overheating the earth to the climate change argument (since, by golly, things have actually been cooling for quite a few years).
Here's some homework for you: How about you go back and investigate the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere immediately following significant volcanic eruptions and forest fires in the US and anywhere else? I would bet dollars to doughnuts, the evidence would be overwhelming that these events put far more CO2, etc. into the atmosphere than man or our "stuff" can do over a number of years. It's interesting that the world has undergone significant volcanic eruptions and huge forest fires (large forest fires now are at least contained to some extent--when there were lots more forests around, I would bet the fires were even bigger and more expansive) and has kept on ticking just fine.
I am no atmospheric expert, but I know this whole GW, climate change, CO2 reduction argument does not getting anywhere close to passing the "smell test" of someone who is trying to look at the various theories and considerations to see what makes sense. Keep on writing, if you want, but please realize you probably lost credibility a couple of hundred of posts ago.
Stick a fork in me; I'm done.
brake man
Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
Hammer wrote:But CO2 emissions are clearly a significant factor and there is something we can do about them and we better get busy before Greenland melts (20'-25' rise in sea levels worldwide) and even worse, Antarctica melts (150'-200' rise in sea levels worldwide)
Let'em melt. I'm not worried!
Genesis 8:21
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Genesis 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
deltadukman: "We may not agree on everything, but we all like t!tties"
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hotty toddy
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
Uh Oh, JaMak just went Old Testament!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here comes the he promised to not flood the whole world and that if all the ice at the poles melt it wouldnt cover every thing argument.
Here comes the he promised to not flood the whole world and that if all the ice at the poles melt it wouldnt cover every thing argument.
BE STILL, HERE THEY COME, BE STILL!!!!!!!!!!!
"Yeah, I got TP..........2 dollars a square"
"Yeah, I got TP..........2 dollars a square"
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mudsucker
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
And FEMA said," Ye, build it higher." and the congregation said AMEN!JaMak84 wrote:Hammer wrote:But CO2 emissions are clearly a significant factor and there is something we can do about them and we better get busy before Greenland melts (20'-25' rise in sea levels worldwide) and even worse, Antarctica melts (150'-200' rise in sea levels worldwide)
Let'em melt. I'm not worried!
Genesis 8:21
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Genesis 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Long Live the Black Democrat!
GEAUX LSU!
WHO DAT!
DO,DU AND DW!
GEAUX LSU!
WHO DAT!
DO,DU AND DW!
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grnhed
- Duck South Addict
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
mudsucker wrote:And FEMA said," Ye, build it higher." and the congregation said AMEN!JaMak84 wrote:Hammer wrote:But CO2 emissions are clearly a significant factor and there is something we can do about them and we better get busy before Greenland melts (20'-25' rise in sea levels worldwide) and even worse, Antarctica melts (150'-200' rise in sea levels worldwide)
Let'em melt. I'm not worried!
Genesis 8:21
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Genesis 9:11
And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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pntailhntr
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL
Hammer, you haven't gotten carpel tunnell yet???? Man this post is WAY out of control!!! I've been gone from this site for since March and come back 5 months later and this post is STILL RUNNING. The tips of your fingers should be callused over from all the typing you've been doing in this post alone!!!! 
SHR Pntailhntr's Last One Standing (Champ)
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