What is REALLY a controlled break...HRC test...

[goosebruce]

Another yes and no marty.... akc assigned numbers to everything and add it up at the end of the day... I won't pretend to know how things like line manners figger in, but i would assume trainabilty of whatever they call that category. And can only assume poor manners would be a markdown, resulting in a lower score that combined with a lower score somewhere else in that category would be a problem. Anytime a dog is out of control in hrc he's out, and the handler is insturucted to pick up his dog. But what about the dog that lacks control, but isn't out... should his lower control not figger into an overall control for the day? What about the dog that creeps badly that morning, but comes back that afternoon and sits well... If there isnt a chance to judge the middle, that dog is more likely to be dropped... when he lacked control, but wasnt out of control. If hes bad loose on both series, but has no other control issues, hes likely to pass. But if hes bad loose, plus has other control issues, well, it adds up. Anytime a dog has failed any part of a test, hes failed for the day. But he can take a lick on one part, and still pass assuming he does better in other things in that category. The numbers akc adds up, vrs saying control is culmative, its the exact same thing but different vernacular. 2 weak blinds will fail you in hrc, but a weak and a good blind will usually play.. its the same as the numbers. Completly fail a blind, and you can line the other you still failed... same in any venue. travis

[flyntwt]

i have nothing to contribute, but gator has made this thread much more entertaining. thats all.

[Chuck McCall]

I started following this thread, but when DIB started talking about getting anal with a judge......time to move on.

[Karen Klotthor]

Your right Chuck. Negative comments are not what is being looked at here. I appreciate all the different ideas and how it is judged. Gives a new handler something to work on. Just because a judge makes a lot of notes does not make them anal but better.

[Mike Perry]

Just looked at E Ark premium. Think I will pass.
I see Jason Christopher and Charles Dwyer will be judging.
Rumor is they both take a lot of notes.
See you at the line
MP

[MRC Dream]

Oh, no negative comments towards judges allowed here now? Well, dang.......follow along and drink the koolaid with the pro-active HRC group pushing to squelch all talk about tests and judges on the internet. If you don't play by the rules, you can't play.......but they make the rules up, as they go along.

HRC will go to crap if allowed to start taking retribution out on folks that talk on the net. Big Brother is watching.......be afraid, very afraid.

Hey, make me an example of how big brother works......cause I don't give a feck....... Oh, btw, they spent a great bit of time discussing this at the national meeting. THE FREAKING INTERNET, WHERE PEOPLE LIKE MIKEY GET THERE FEELINGS HURT...........LOL............

Anyone want to start a Nahra club?

[CF]

Dude I am trying to figure you out but for the life of me I can't...I mean what is up with this whole internet attitude thing... I mean did you get picked on a lot when you were a kid or something...

every time there is a post you chime in...you express your opinion...trash the thread...trash whatever or whoever the talk is about...throw a few insults in here and there...and pretty much just act like a complete p%r&i*c$k on the interweb...WTF

...then when I see you at a test or sumthin' you present yourself as an all around nice guy...cool to hang with at the tailgate and talk chit and drink a cold one or two with...

..then for some reason we get back home and on the web and its back to DIB the p%r&i*c$k again...is this some kind of joke or something...

and now you are on to trashing HRC...whats next...


seriously confused regards

[MRC Dream]

Just not much of a rules person CF......just not much of a being told what to do person CF..........Exactly the reason I moved to the sticks out of my old subdivision. To many idiots trying to captain the ship.

Hope you understand, dude.......

dib

[CF]

Nah...prolly won't understand...


...just can't draw a bead on the whole 2 personality dealio...



whatever turns the crank though, dude....


bewildered regards

[goosebruce]

Lemme know how many people are ready to start a nahra club with you. Bout time you actually did something instead of just bad mouthing other peoples efforts. I'll be sure and come run your prelim, and see how you do it better than anyone. travis

[gator]

Just not much of a rules person CF......just not much of a being told what to do person CF...

Dear mental mastermind,

Rules are in place in every aspect of society. They are there either for the betterment/safety of you, society, or both. You can't run away from rules, b/c they are everywhere. Although, someone did try that. We came to know him as the "unibomber". Coincidence? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

In the dog world, they are there for many reasons not the least of which are: safety for you, safety for the dog, to place everyone on an 'even ground' in order to better judge dog work for 1) placements and 2) passes, etc etc etc.

Sometimes, you're like a 5 watt light bulb.........while you may work, you just ain't too bright.

This ain't that hard regards, gator

[gator]

p.s......i know

"F U gator".

here to help, gator

[Marty N.]

Travis

Where I guess I am having a problem with the controlled break issue is not in the creeping but in the way it is looked at by the two games.

If a dog moves from the handlers side it is a creep no matter if it is 6" or 6' the dog moved. If the handler says nothing then even though the dog moved he is not expressing by a command that he considers the dog out of control, when a handler tells the dog to sit at that moment he has shown his dog is out of control by commanding the dog to sit. In my world the dog is out at the Master Level, Senior it is called a controlled break (just saying sit once) but you still play. Finished or Seasoned talking on the line is part of the culture and this is where I think it becomes harder to distinguish between a controlled break in Finished and just "working the line" with the dog creating a grayer area for the handler and the judge to consider.

I enjoy the two hunt tests but suffer from "Culture Shock" shifting between the two.

Just my two cents

Marty

[goosebruce]

Marty, thats dead on to the point of the thread... a simplistic defintion of a controlled break is the handler getting involved works for master and the grand, because it should. But that defiention takes away the culture of talking to your dog at the line, when used broadly across all levels... now a dog moving forward and a handler trying to swing his dog to see the birds with normal cues, risks being chraged a controlled break even though the dog was simply enthusiatic and made no effort to retreive. To me, in a weekend end test, there has to be an effort to go for it to be a controlled break. Creeping is creeping and unless it effects the safety of shooting the birds I dont see it as an issue for a hunting dog personally (i.e. the blast cone), and imho should be distingisuhed between a controlled break at all levels. travis

[CF]

I personally don't see a problem with talking to a dog in a hunt test situation...I do it when I hunt...I don't think a person should be allowed to yell a the dog but simply telling the dog to sit while birds are being thrown doesn't really change the dogs marking and memory ability in my opinion.............

..but..I don't make the rules...I just play the games so I try and sit quiet while we run...


To me allowing the handler to talk to the WD or HD at the line would eliminate this "GRAY" in any test game IMO...