DU Newsletter - A Call to Arms

[Greenhead22]

Hey Wilfowler and MC, if I we some free time this weekend I'll be glad to show you where your money is going when sent to DU, it's going right into building duck hunting habitat on private leases.

[GulfCoast]

LOL: GH22, you still poaching yer neighbors?

Wildfowler: No offense taken. I was just messing with you. About 50% of this board it seems like are lawyers. They just won't admit it like me, meeka, HDC, Ole Buff and others.

"Doctors and Lawyers" are not what is wrong with duck hunting. I have yet to ever be in a lease with another lawyer, and only two doctors I know are other than "one trip a year" duck hunters.

People who don't want to honor the traditional values of the sport, whine and gripe all the time without giving back dollars, time or both to the ducks are what is wrong with this sport.

If folks don't like DU for some percieved problem, put your time and money into Delta. Or build you a big ole duck feeding hole and don't hunt it, like Benny. I don't care what you do, just put more in than you take out.

[gadwall2]

Who are the biggest conservationists out there?--THE FARMERS--
And what did DU drive to do with the farm bill?--TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM FARMERS.
Did they succeed?--YES
How did they succeed? --LOBBYING EFFORTS
Is a lobbyist cheap?--NO (I know)
(Wait-the lobbyist could be a fellow DU volunteer-NOT!!)
Who paid for the lobbyists?--WE DID
(I'm a member because I like the magazine)

Wildfowler, don't come up with that "proof" thing on me. You don't have to be real smart to know how politics work.

I completely disagree with DU on that push. Don't take money away from the 1.5% of the people that feed the other 98.5%. And usually do it while losing money themselves. You'll understand better when you have to finance a trip to McDonald's one day.

[sportsman450]

Wildfowler-as I have said,my facts are simple.My own personal experience with D.U. was bad.,and if you don't think they could have spent a lot less on their offices,you are simply wrong.
As fsr as catering to the rich is concerened,look at the
D.U catalog(see anything in there a working guy would want to buy),or watch the tv show(nothing but "plantation" hunts)
You are also mistaken in thinking that the rich hunters don't want to know how to hunt public land(go to a good public area when things are tough-you'll find them there looking for ducks-seen this with my own eyes).And most dog lovers like to train their own dogs.
As far as the advertisers are concerned,they were things all hunters use,and they paid good money for the space.
Finally,duck hunting did not become an expensive sport until the late 70s or early 80s when the lease craze started.I watched this happen with my own eyes too.
My facts don't deal with big issues,but they are enough for me!
If I can ever afford to support or give my time to a conservation group
again,it will be D.W..

[Wildfowler]

http://www.agriculture.com/default.sph/ ... ___790___7

Gadwall, you may very well be correct. The farming community may very well have a legitimate argument against DU. I'm not a farmer and I don't know anything about the farm bill. And so far, all of the complaints that I've heard about DU have revolved around some notion that DU has lost touch with the backbone of it's membership. That DU pays it's executives excessively high salaries. That they cater to the rich and powerful. I view those ideas as flawed misconceptions that people have for whatever reason.

Since you didn't send me anything or link or any sort of reference, so I went out looking for one. I've attached an editorial that I found, printed about a year ago. Like I said before, I know nothing of the farm bill and any diversion that DU may have influenced. And this is exactly what I was hoping that someone would be able to give me. A bona fide complaint.

I will say that after reading this pointed opinion of DU in the attached link, the opinion may indeed be based on factual events. If so, I would feel like the farmers do have every legitimate reason to be mad. And I can say that I would support their viewpoint based on my very limited scope of knowledge of this issue.

I don't know what the farm bill does, and I don't know if the farmers got one last year. I'm assuming that was some degree of consequences as a result of DU's lobbying actions last year that cost farmers money. I agree with that author, Harvey Joe Sanner, in that DU should not disrupt the farming process. And I agree that DU should be farm friendly. I also like to shoot ducks over agricultural fields. They should work in cooperation with one another. I also like to buy food in a grocery store just like everyone else. I don't want to do anything to drive up the costs of my groceries.

I am going to continue to learn more about this particular issue, so that I may better understand the complexity of the issue. I would like to know how much was lost by farmers. Or diverted, or whatever happened.

Admittedly, until a few days ago, I knew nothing of any details for or against DU. And I don't believe the farm bill issue is related in any way to the issues that I have been complaining about for the past few days. Again, I do thank you giving me your point of view and giving me another angle to view this matter on.

Asking the group, is this really an anti-DU sentiment really a farm bill issue? If so, I think you may have a legitimate case. But without knowing all the facts, I can't possibly be expected to jump on the bandwagon, when I don't even know where it's going. And some of the stuff I have heard in the last year or so, just doesn't even make sense and isn't even true.

And that is where I believe that the ducks will suffer, if we believe something that we start believing something that isn't even true. That's how this whole debate started, something was said that wasn't true about DU. And I think I called the bluff.

But now, I think I may be understanding the root of the problem. Honestly, there is probably not any sort of equitable solution available. I surely wouldn't know what to do about it.

I don't want to quit conserving waterfowl habitat. But if I can't afford to eat, then duck hunting does not become as critical to me.

[gadwall2]

Just trying to give you a snap shot about what DU is doing. The real travesty with this situation is that there are still some good people in DU that are just innocent bystanders of main office descicions. I will continue to be a member of DU and Delta, but I believe that Delta puts more emphasis on ducks and they claim to be a hunter's organization.

[Hambone]

Didn't the Farm Bill controversy eventually work out to the farmers' general satisfaction? This is a question, not a debate-starter. I'm aware of DU's original position on the issue, which I have been told was eventually modified toward a compromise that made more sense.

[gadwall2]

What would you say if you could get 25 cents of what was your dollar or get the dollar taken away completely. I wouldn't call it "general satisfaction",but rather having to deal with it.

[Wildfowler]

Gadwall, what can be done? Is there any way an mutual agreement can be constructed. I applogize for my ignorance of the subject, and if I say something that is offensive to a farmer, I want you to know that I truely did not mean to offend anyone.

Do all farms receive subsidies? How is the amount of the subsidy determined? Is it some flat rate across the board, or a complex calculation? Is the subsidy determined based on the final production of the farm? Is it possible for both agencies (conservation and agriculture) to lobby to have subsidy moneys that were not needed in high yield years, to be "pooled and compounded" for some amount of time. Creating a buffer, where by after some time, both conservation could draw from the funds.

I'm just trying to throw out some ideas, I may be way off base here with my logic, due to the fact that I have no understanding of the process?

Thanks.

[Wildfowler]

Or DU could take a pro-farmer viewpoint and start considering a restoration of waterfowl habitat, to be a temporary, but annual re-occurring event, by subsidizing farmers to conduct their agricultural process, in as waterfowl "friendly" of a manner as possible? By leaving the spilled grain in the fields, and by holding rain water in these same fields. I suppose, DU's mission to restore waterfowl habitat, doesn't have to be restricted to the breeding grounds. Any thoughts?

Something needs to be done to mend the differences between the two groups

[sportsman450]

Wildfowler-in a recent post you said "something was said about d.u. that wasn't true and I think I called the bluff".
You say it wasn't true,but YOU offer no proof(facts).
Where are YOUR facts?

[Wildfowler]

Sportsman, first you need to go back and re-read everything I have said very carefully about this quote. You should see that I have offered reasons and even provided detail as to why I think the following quote is incorrect.

dkman

Your contributions are nothing compared to the revenue in the govt contracts

(The reason you hear nobody else shouting a "call to arms" is because nobody else can touch the money.) It's a bottomless pit of Govt revenue and DU is standing dead under the flow and wont let anyone else touch it.

These two quotes are the root of what started this whole thing, people sometimes say thing without knowing the facts. I'm not mad a Dkman at all. I just choose to differ with him, based on what I have tried to verify.

I don't know if Dkman wants you to speak on his behalf or not, but after you have read them, please come back and talk to me about the error in my way of thinking about this statement and what it means. I personally believe that I have demonstrated that the above statements are simply not true. I have said repeatedly, that I will be glad to apologize publicly, privately, or whatever needed, if I am wrong about anything I said. I am a gentleman, and I will stand by my word.

I am not going to go through this entire debate with you all over again. I have previously addressed nearly every ill-founded negative opinion that you have submitted about DU. If you think I am wrong with any responses that I have previously given you, please give me specifics reasons and evidence as to why you thing I am wrong. I've taken the time ( way to much ) to look this stuff up and explain my thoughts as clearly as possible. Please give me the courtesy of the doing the same by looking at this info. Who knows, I might just agree with you. But I won't know that until can come up with a well thought out response. I would also challenge you to offer some real practical solutions as I am trying to do here with the issue of the farm bill ( something I currently know nothing about ) rather than complaining vehemently. The ducks will thank you for it.

Thanks.

[sportsman450]

Wildfowler -you still offer no hard core facts.
Just because you can't find any proof,doesn't mean something is not true.Your opinion means no more than anybody elses.
You claimed to have PROVEN dkman wrong.
I can't find any FACTS that you came up with to disprove him!!

I have never denied that d.u. did some good.It is just my OPINION that Delta may be a better group.

[Steel 3's]

I see that the same old misconceptions, creative interpretations, and complete falsehoods continue to be bantered around regarding DU .... too bad.

Too bad, because the topic of this thread was NAWCA. The North American Wetland Conservation Act has been a major source of revenue for implementing the North American Waterfowl Management Plan and Ducks Unlimited does NOT, I repeat, does NOT control access to these funds.

I am a voting member of the Gulf Coast Joint Venture Management Board, and we evaluate NAWCA proposals twice a year and make recommendations to the Wetland Council in Washington, DC for funding. The statements about DU limiting access to these funds, which started all this BS, is pure unadulterated BALDERDASH, and the person that made the statements clearly knows NOTHING about the funding process.

But THAT is precisely the crap that gets promulgated on internet talk-groups often enough to make them highly suspect sources of information.

Again ....... too bad.

[sportsman450]

Aaaaaah-the words of a politician.
I know I believe him.