Judge rules much of Mississippi River off limits to anglers

[Dutch Dog]

Nope, not at all a punk booty for keeping folks off his property...just a punk booty. It's written all over any and everything he's ever done with Primos. Spoiled rotten little rich kid that I simply can't stand to watch on TV. Nobody is wrong for protecting their property. I never said one word about anyone else...only him. Don't drag his mother or cousins or uncle in law's into this, as I never said anything about them. Once again, I do respect his shooting ability, but that's as far as it goes.

[torch]

Ya'll don't understand the river. Our duck club starts at the TN line and runs south to the Gulf of Mexico. Just about any water we can get into without getting outside the natural banks we hunt. Oxbow lakes are an exception to the rule. Merigold Hunting Club won a landmark case about 20 years ago. The Supreme court ruled that the chute running off of Lake Beulah was not a chute but a "Crevace". Merigold Hunting Club posted it and it will stand up in court if you tresspass.

[Jelly]

Ya'll don't understand the river. Our duck club starts at the TN line and runs south to the Gulf of Mexico. Just about any water we can get into without getting outside the natural banks we hunt. Oxbow lakes are an exception to the rule. Merigold Hunting Club won a landmark case about 20 years ago. The Supreme court ruled that the chute running off of Lake Beulah was not a chute but a "Crevace". Merigold Hunting Club posted it and it will stand up in court if you tresspass.

No fishing either?

[Nitro Mag]

Yes, no fishing or hunting and the reason it is posted is because the chute connecting it to beulah is manmade. If I remember correctly, they dredged it when they were getting dirt to reenforce the levee. Since the chute is not natural and there would be noway to enter without the manmade chute, it is private property.

[torch]

they claim it was formed by an earthquake, causing a crevase.

[mudsucker]

The Walkers are fine people.

He's a punk for trying to keep trespassers off his property?

Great FIRST POST! Name calling and everything. Who are ya and what are you(as we say on the vhf radio on the river when called by an UNKNOW party)?

_______

What? Read it again. I wasn't calling anyone names. I was defending a good and decent guy who was accused of being a punk a** something simply because he doesn't allow trespassing on his property.

Who am I? No one of consequence.

And it's not my first post. It's my first post after having to re-register the other day.

I apoligize as I did not see the "?" mark! That does change the meaning of the sentence!

[Wingman]

Let me open a can o' worms.

Beaver Dam in Tunica county; it is an oxbow of the Mississippi...same as Tunica Lake, DeSoto Lake, Horn Lake and Moon Lake. See laws above concering "publicness" of oxbows formed by public waterways.

A public road runs right through the middle...you can access the public water from the shoulder of the public road. IThe lake is surrounded by private land. If one landowner was to give you permission to get to the water through his land, you could hunt/fish the entire lake.

If there was no public access on Tunica Lake (like Charlie's ramp, etc.) then the public would have to have permission from landowners to put in the lake. Problem solved when landowners put in a ramp and charge people to launch or when state leases land and installs a boat ramp. Only other access would be through the old river channel when the river is up enough to float through it.

But in the case of Beaver Dam, there is no public ramp. The lake is landlocked, as are many oxbows no longer connected to the river by an old channel or "chute"....Moon Lake is another example. The chutes have been silted in over many years(that is the whole geology of how oxbows are formed) The river pinches a bend in two, it silts in the ends of the "U" and the oxbow is formed...now the old channel "ends" are farmed and no longer flood. So you have no public access from the river. You can legally walk off the side of Hwy 1 and into the shallows on the south end of Moon Lake. Isn't that the same situation as the public road that runs through Beaver Dam? I say it is indeed.

So, who wants to hunt Beaver Dam with me and grik this winter?

[Po Monkey Lounger]

Rob, the Dycus v Sillers opinion holds the answer to your question re the legality of hunting these old oxbows.

[mudsucker]

I'll take my chances with Mr. Greenjeans and hunt with him! Who else is with us?

[chadrideduck]

Heck, I might as well be. looks like everyone will be busy fighting you outlaws away. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Stano]

What about Cuckleburr lake on Horn lake? It can be acessed at low water levels? go hunt it lol.......

[Wingman]

Yes, I know, Max. But you better have a laminated copy of it on you when you hit some of these oxbows because not all landowners agree that they are public.

I have been researching this for over a year and I have not found favor with many landowners who have long thought they owned the oxbows.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

The case involving the Buelah Crevase was the Dycus opinion. And the poster is correct that the court's conclusion that the Crevase was private was due to the fact that the access chute in question was man-made by the USCOE. Had there been a naturally created access chute, the opinion would have went the other way.


Rob, for the reasons you state, I think that our state of MS should re-purchase all of the bottoms of every river and stream lying within the state of MS via the power of emminent domain, for the public use. These bottoms (at least the waters that cover them) were never intended to fall into private hands and control, as these waters were reserved for the public trust as part of our state's agreement with the US upon receiving statehood. Unfortunately, our state allowed many of these river bottoms to be sold, with our state's law protecting the waters flowing above them for use by the public. Such is why in MS, the owners of the bottoms of these streams do not legally control the water. However, slowly, over time, there has been a movement by those river/stream bottom owners to claim rights to the surface waters, eroding the original intent of the public trust. Some of our current laws in place have eroded this trust.

Other states do not have this problem, because they did not sell their public river and stream bottoms to private citizens. Thus, their laws are much simpler ----if you own the bottoms, you control the water.

Thus, to rectify this situation that continues to cause problems, our state should purchase the bottoms of all inland rivers and steams, using the power of emminent domain. To determine how much bottom land to purchase, they should use models which estimate the amount of land covered at the high water mark. Thereafter, once all of the needed purchases have taken place, change the law to the effect that the owners of the land control any surface water covering it. The public will have the right to utilize the surface waters convering the publicly owned bottoms, and no more. There would be no need to get into vague determinations such as what is "floodwater", and where are the "natural banks" (BTW, to further demonstrate the current absurdities in our laws, when a river is dredged, and the COE carves out new banks, where exactly are the "natural banks" --where they once were, or where the COE has now placed them?).

[Wingman]

Max,

Another problem is that private landowners are constructing dams across these public waterways. They own the land, but not the water. The water goes down and they make a levee all the way across...thus blocking public access when the water rises.

Several oxbows in Quitman and Tallahatchie county have been blocked in this fashion, forever landlocking them and prohibiting all public access.

There is even a hunting club in Coahoma county wanting to build a road across the north end of DeSoto Lake. If they are allowed to do this, about a mile of lake will be completely blocked off from public boat access.

I agree that the law is conflicting because the land under the water is considered private but 51-1-4 states that the public shall have the right to free transport within the stream and its bed. That bed, in my opinion, is everything between the tops of the banks. I cannot get anyone to give me a clear answer to this, only that the public can use the water but not the dry ground. It is borderline assinine.

[mottlet]

First of all, the state can't afford to buy gas for game wardens. How're they gonna buy all of the bottoms in the state? And even if they could, to do so would be political suicide. That many private property holders could drum up a bunch of support. And ALL of it assumes that the property holders couldn't get the State's actions overturned in court. Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't. The Supreme Court recently ruled very favorably for states and eminent domain. But the Court has undergone some changes since then and I'd bet dollars to donuts that Roberts and Alito keep it from going that way again.

Besides, spending all of that money, just to clarify what is basically already the law seems a bit bizarre. I do agree that it would eliminate some of the confusion. But the problem of duck hunters riding rivers that are above flood stage to a privately owned honey hole that is itself two or three feet above flood level would still exist. There are enough replies in this thread alone to provide sufficient evidence that some will use the water for access to private property regardless of the law.

However, I do agree that private landowners attempting to keep the public off of public water should be punished. Yall should see what it's like up here. Private landowners adjacent to public rivers use the state's ridiculous blind laws to keep hunters off of the water adjacent to their property. Since they own the land, they get first dibbs on a blind in that portion of the river. You guessed it. The result is some of the most pathetic excuses for a duck blind that you've ever seen, built by non-hunting landowners just to keep law-abiding duck hunters away.

mottlet