why are so many ready to dump 60 days???

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SoftCall
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Postby SoftCall » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:13 pm

Sportsman today....

I never blamed DU for anything. What I said was that giving to DU/DW was easy, and painless while giving up days in the field is a whole lot harder. Not once did I say anything about not donating to DU.



Sportsman a few weeks ago from the Blaming DU For Duck hunting thread...

It's these same people who are now chasing ducks all over the country , putting nonstop pressure on them from Canada to the coast. While DU may not be totally responsible for this, they sure played a major role in it.


I am glad to see that you have had a change of heart! :wink: Support DU and DW!
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sportsman450
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Postby sportsman450 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:34 pm

SoftCall wrote:Sportsman today....

I never blamed DU for anything. What I said was that giving to DU/DW was easy, and painless while giving up days in the field is a whole lot harder. Not once did I say anything about not donating to DU.



Sportsman a few weeks ago from the Blaming DU For Duck hunting thread...

It's these same people who are now chasing ducks all over the country , putting nonstop pressure on them from Canada to the coast. While DU may not be totally responsible for this, they sure played a major role in it.


I am glad to see that you have had a change of heart! :wink: Support DU and DW!

No change of heart softcall. I was referring to the context of THIS thread since you were having such a hard time understanding the point I was trying to make.
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sportsman450
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Postby sportsman450 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:50 pm

iron grip wrote:Let's see that nameless place over there gave a few me nice oppurtunities, and Davis grocery man, the south delta is hardly the place to judge the fall flight. Myself and my partners have the state covered as far as reports and get the big picture a lot better it seems. Nope I'm not saying this state was covered up with ducks this year, but we didn't have the weather for it either. Like I said before look at Missouri. There are too many uncontrollable factors for us to say a reduction in days is the one cure all. Hell you'd be helping the economic demise of the Davis Grocery if you did get your way and the season was shortened.
The only thing that is laughable is your know all position on this subject when you haven't been in the field in how many years? I mean your one of the reasons the average is so low (from Bigwater's post) per hunter. You and your views and the weekend warrior guys who are somehow connected to the law makers (please don't deny that) are the only reason we're having this conversation. Cause you don't see ducks while riding around in your truck and the weekenders that hunt the same spots weekend in and out say there's "no ducks".

This one is even more laughable than the other one. You know virtually nothing about me or how much time I've spent in the field over the last few years. Not duck hunting doesn't mean I haven't been out there, and you know even less about where my buddies hunt. Between us, I can almost garauntee that we have the edge in age and experience over you and the kids you hunt with. If you are not young, allow me to apologize for my mistake, but it's hard to believe that an adult would respond the way you have. ----Maybe I would be sportsman385 instead of 450 gimme a break.

I'm through with this one. Greed is a terrible thing. It has a deceptive way of blinding those afflicted with it, and if anything softcall said was true, it was that this argument isn't going to change anybody's mind.
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SoftCall
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Postby SoftCall » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:19 pm

Sportsman - I knew exactly what you were saying. You bash the hell out of DU every chance that you get...and always have on the site. Please find one positive thing that you have said about the organization. You stereotype DU supporters and throw them in the same bucket as weekend wanna be's.

Question - Do you support them?

What relevance does DU have to this thread period? NONE NADDA ZILCHO - NUTIN'....so...they have been meshed in the same comment with the word greed again.....WHY?

This thread is about pressure (among other things)....right?

Too few ducks, and too much pressure.


You blame DU for pressure on birds....right? Now I am getting confused....come on man!

NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID:

Folks who are using Sportman's lack of time in the woods over the last few years to prove their point need to back off and find another point to focus on. If he could be out there, he would. Enough with the low blows fellas cause next year you'll look up and he will be standing in your hole - I HOPE. But he'll have to hurry if there are only 30 days!
Last edited by SoftCall on Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mudsucker
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Postby mudsucker » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:24 pm

And he ain't at the Davis Grocery either! :shock:
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Postby Blackduck » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:21 pm

I stopped at the Davis Grocery every time i go into the delta. That catalpa tree is about to take the thing over.
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Postby bigwater » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:23 pm

wrong wrong wrong sportmans ???.. look i said some things that i wish i could take back.. but to be honest ya know ya did too.. i was the one that called you sportmans 385 instead of 450....


but u know why i did that.. i was frustrated with you grouping all of us as greedy...

the only thing i'm for is to let the powers be decide the season...

if they say 30 and 2 then fine... if the ducks will support 60 and 6 then ..

well we wont go there..
no hard fellings here.

will stop by the grocery and see ya sometime

later
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Postby Wildfowler » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:47 am

sportsman450 wrote:Yes I was in support of the extension, but in hindsight, I think it was a mistake. More for what was given on the front end up north than for the late season here.


Does anyone else hear greed resonating from this statement?.... I was for the extension when I thought it would only benefit us. Now that I know the yanks got the better end of the deal, I'm not for it anymore.

The fact of the matter is that you perceive "the situation" as being to much hunting pressure. And you think the cure to that situation will be lowering the days to thin out the crowds. That's just as greedy as my wanting to go for 60 days when biologists are telling me I can. Here's why I think it won't work.

What do you think the regs might be like in your beloved National Wildlife Refuge during a 30 day duck season. Do you think they will re-structure the deer season do as not to inadvertently cut out any additional days from an already abbreviated duck season? I doubt it. During a 30 season, you're not even going to get to hunt 30 days in that place. How would you like the opening weekend of state duck season to be closed due to a deer hunt in your favorite spot.

You're already being cut short for wanting to hunt there due to the deer regulations. Currently by your own admission, the hunting pressure is too heavy for your preference. Just imaging how much worse it's going to be if you get restricted to just 15 or 20 days of being able to hunt in there?

Look, the only duck hunters who will quit hunting during the 30 season are the ones who just can't kill any ducks because of their inability or because of their reluctance to try something different, or possibly leave their familiar surrounding and look for another area to hunt. When it is no longer FUN for people to duck hunt, that's when they'll quit. The majority of the folks who duck hunt now, will still continue to hunt even during the shorter season because it's still going to be fun for them. A shorter season will actually give many folks more days to feel like they can deer hunt or do something else without feeling like they are missing anything fun in the duck blind. During a short season, those who rely on public land are still going to "cram" themselves into the same spots they do now because of less total number of days to do it because they are obviously having fun doing it now.

Really, the only way you're going to loose the hunting pressure is if the duck populations drop so low, that people REALLY aren't killing ducks anymore. To self-imposed such a restricted season when it's not necessary is not going to cause people to loose the ability to kill their ducks. It's just going to give them less days of which to do it. What you're asking for doesn't even make sense because it won't thin out the crowds.

Listen to what I'm saying. If folks are continuing to hunt under the conditions that you and your buddies are complaining about now, it's because the are really having FUN doing it. No one is so sadistic that they will continue to punish themselves by doing something over and over again when they really don't like doing it. No, these folks will continue to hunt even if given only 30 days. Honestly, nothing will have changed from this year to next year if we merely self-impose a 30 season upon ourselves for no reason other than to try to thin out the crowds. Except, we'll only have 30 days to do the same thing we've been doing. Just because you're not seeing them in your old familiar spot, doesn't mean they're not somewhere else.


Hey, you want to thin the crowds out, just start advocating that we do away with ATV's on public land. That would thin out a lot of folks.
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sportsman450
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Postby sportsman450 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:17 am

Wildfowler wrote:
sportsman450 wrote:Yes I was in support of the extension, but in hindsight, I think it was a mistake. More for what was given on the front end up north than for the late season here.


Does anyone else hear greed resonating from this statement?.... I was for the extension when I thought it would only benefit us. Now that I know the yanks got the better end of the deal, I'm not for it anymore.

Absolutely, I was an even bigger self-centered booty back then than I am now.

The reason I think the front end was a mistake, is because that's where the real change has taken place. Young ducks are being slaughtered up there in unprecedented numbers. That has nothing to do with my personal greed. It has a lot to do with a very dangerous trend.

As softcal so rightly said, it's obvious that noone's opinion is going to change here. :wink:
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Postby Bankermane » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:18 pm

I have a different point of view. I would recommend legal shooting quit @ 10:00 am. That gives you about 3.5 hrs to hunt then the ducks can rest for 21.5 hrs. just my opinion.
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Postby Po Monkey Lounger » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 pm

Well, the offseason is definately here in full force ---the bitching and banter back and forth has officially begun. :lol:

As to the extention of the framework, I voted for it before I voted against it. :lol:

Now if you guys would just apply for one of those top secret subsistence hunting licenses like I have, these season lengths would not make a damn bit of difference ---just hunt when ya want to. This past weekend was awesome. Limited out 2 straight days in the Don Miller hole. Limit = all you can tote.:wink:
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Postby Dog's Eye » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:51 pm

my god at the bitching. :(
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Postby tupe » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:20 pm

Maybe it is just a hair brained notion on my part but I wonder?

Could the real reason for the adjustment to the AHM options be that the old formula JUST DID NOT WORK. By that I mean that, did the folks what look into that crystal ball of number look at the real potential that if the numbers dropped just so this year we might make aradical jump from 60 to 30 and they sure as heck did not want to explain that?

50 or 30 seems logical to me, maybe 50 - 35 would make more folks happy but who knows.

The real issue here, at least to me, is that AHM is being all but abandonded, and some want to say it is for reasons other than the fact that it never worked inthe first place.

A 60 day season is something that should ONLY happen in the years of PEAK production and bird counts, not every year that we remain even slightlyabove the long term average.

LTA can and will move with the fluctuating cycle of production. More downyears means a lower LTA in the end. 60 should be a rare season that only happens inthe best of times where production is concerned, but most years a 45 day season should be about right with a 30 in truely lean times.

AHM was weighted toward MAXIMUM HARVEST. That in my opinion is a problemwith the formula. Why not err onthe side of conservation?

BLAH BLAH BLAH, I get tired of hearing myself even. I have said it all before and it seems no one can agree on anything. But the simple truth is this WATERFOWL PROUDCTIION THROUGH CONSERVATION SHOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE OF CONCERN FOR ALL OF US.

FILL THE SKIES AND WE WILL ALL BE ABLE TO FILL OUR LIMITS.

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Postby driveby » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:21 pm

Ok. I'm already prepared for the bashing for being an outsider but here goes.
I like the 60 days. Why? I'm in West Alabama and it takes a lot more trips to the water to bag ducks than it does where you are. I'm not blessed with duck paradise like you. If you think it's hard hunting over there then I'll gladly trade places with you. Any takers? :D
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Postby BR549 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:36 pm

You know I normaly don't say to much about what's posted on the board here but you guys are getting pathetic! Why in the hell would you want to deviate from any biological data is beside me. I've been hunting ducks since the limit was ONE duck. Haven't had a bad hunt yet! Sure there's beendays that I haven't killed many there have even been a few days when I got skunked. But that's not the point! Where are you ethics and morals? Hunting is a privilege and a sport! Just being able to go should be enough. If you got to just kill kill kill everytime you go then you are the one's with the problem! It all come down to management practices. We've seen the good years and we've seen the bad years and our number rarely vary much. And I can assure we are killing ducks! I avarage about 40 days a year in the field and for the last 45 years or so have never hunted the same place more than twice a week. The ducks come down we have them year in year out. The reason your not killing ducks is because of hunting pressure plain and simple! It's not about that "magical" hole or lease. Any place can be good if it's managed properly. And it don't happen overnight either. As far as hunting public lands it's simply just to much hunting pressure but what else can we do? Shortening the season is not going to get rid of that problem! If the biological data can support the hunting of sixty days then by all means we need to give everyone as many opportunities as possible to be afield! I do think the hunting seasons in our state are to long especialy on deer but there again if the data supports it I'm not going to bitch about it. I'll quit hunting after I kill two or three anyhow! Sorry to you fellows that are ethical sportsman out there but thuis $#!+ is just plain silly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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