Business owners: Open Carry Question

[booger]

bigoak - I'll play along. Although I'm making a deposit, I must be off to the side checking my arithmetic, chatting with the ladies, or perhaps in line and not at a teller window with my back turned toward the door. That's how I would be able to see this occurring? The bank may have individual pick your own window with multiple lines or velvet rope stanchions "wait here for next teller"??

I've ascertained he's carrying, single action in cowboy holster? Glock in kydex?, waistband Mexican? Car pulled up to door? Alone or anyone following him in? If it's just a simple guy, alone, with some practical carry rig coming in line, then I just shrug my shoulders and stay aware. I already know that he's blown past the "no-go" guns sign and any bank employee may have already tripped the alarm. If I saw the open carry guy then they did too. I hope to get my banking done before there's either cops waving guns around yelling orders or possibly confrontation betwixt open carry guy and the bank manager explaining policy.

If he's not just a doofus but instead a bad guy that get's in my teller line and then draws his gun and starts hollering, then what we have here is a "fluid situation".

Until something goes wrong he's assumed to be just a doofus.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

One issue related to open carry is the following.

The MS Castle doctrine extends protection to those defending themselves in certain situations. One situation involves defending oneself against someone breaking into your home. In this situation, you are legally allowed to presume that the intruder intends to harm you and/or your family and you may use deadly force against the intruder without fear of being second guessed and later prosecuted yourself. But, even in the home situation, you cannot use deadly force to protect your property. So, if someone trespasses on your property, but is not breaking into your home, the benefit of the Castle doctrone likely does not apply.

Under the MS Castle doctrine law, you enjoy similar protection while in your vehicle and while at your place of work. However, the further you move away from your home, the more tricky the application of this doctrine becomes. For instance, if someone has your vehicle's path blocked and is trying to break into your vehicle while you are in it, then you have the right to use deadly force, even if they are not visibly armed. But, if the attacker had no visible weapon and you could avoid the situation by simply pressing down on the gas and leaving the scene, then it is doubtful that the Castle doctrine would apply to protect you if you made the decision to use deadly force.

Under MS law, the Castle doctrine does not apply to the street. And this is where this issue is applicable to the open carry/concealed carry scenario. On the street, in order to be justified in using deadly force, the normal law would apply ---- you would have to have a reasonable belief that your life was in danger, and the situation must not have been avoidable by you simply walking away. On the street, decisions to use deadly force will likely be second guessed by others, and may result in the person using the deadly force being later prosecuted for a crime. Open carry would seem to have the potential to increase the situations in which one might over-react to a situation. And it may increase the number of tense situations --- eg the visible presence of a weapon in the hands of a person (legal to carry) who is engaging in threatening actions (words, gestures, etc.) might trigger a decision by a similarly armed person (also legal to carry) to use deadly force against the person making the threatening actions --- when absent the presence of the weapon, such threatening actions would not have provoked this same response. So, those carrying a firearm will need to avoid making threatening type of gestures, or using threatening type of language, lest they create a sufficient level of reasonable belief in another carrying person that the person's life is in danger.

I have seen some hot-headed folks in my life who just seem to have a propensity to threaten others --- and some of them don't even realize the extent to which they are viewed as a threat to others ----but, since they are not visibly armed, they are most often ignored and avoided. IF these same type of folks are armed while engaging in this same behavior, you can bet they are now going to be on my radar. THAT is going to make me uncomfortable --- perhaps enough to start carrying myself ---- and hopefully not enough to cause me to over-react and shoot them.

There is an old saying along the lines of "don't ever pull a gun unless you intend to use it". This will be even better advice in MS come July. You pull a weapon just to threaten or joke around, and you may wind up justifiably shot by a nearby carrying person.

IF you choose to openly carry, you are going to be on everyone's radar ---- mine included. So, you best be on your very best behavior at all times that you are carrying. Everything you say and do will be noticed by others, processed, and analyzed for a potential threat. It is just human nature.

[jacksbuddy]

.... you best be on your very best behavior at all times that you are carrying....

I have not taken a single one of his courses. However, I DO believe that this very statement is probably made on day #1 of any class that our friend cwink teaches.

Mind you, that is just a guess on my part. Albeit, an 'educated' one.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

Here is an interesting story that caught my eye that involves potential problems with law enforcement with respect to open carry laws:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/34 ... cj-grisham

Briefly, here is the Cliff's Notes version. Decorated vet father is taking his teenage son on a 10 mile hike in Texas as part of the teen's progress toward earning Eagle Scout rank in Boy Scouts. The father is openly carrying a loaded AR-15, but round not chambered. The rifle is clipped onto the front of the father's backpack. Father is also carrying a loaded, holstered and concealed 45 pistol. The father is a legal gun owner and has a concealed carry permit. Apparently someone sees the father with the rifle and reports it to the local Sheriff's department. Members of the Sheriff's department approach the father to question him about the rifle. A confrontation occurs that eventually results in the father being handcuffed, arrested, and charged with criminal violations related to resisting arrest and faiing to follow orders from law enforcement. The father maintains that he did nothing wrong, was wrongfully arrested and detained, and plans to sue.

Keep in mind that in the state of Texas, it is legal for any lawful gun owner to openly carry a long gun (rifle or shotgun), so long as it is not carried in a threatening manner. Texas has concealed carry laws, but these only apply to handguns. The father was not breaking any Texas laws by having possession of the rifle or pistol at the time and place the incident occurred.

Watch the video to see what happens.

IMO, I think the father and the deputy made some mistakes which escalated this unnecessary confrontation. But, I can see this same type of scenario unfolding in MS after July. Everyone is going to have to use some common sense to avoid these types of conflicts.