This is a serious invite. Lilwhite lie, Monkey, Cotton, Dawn and any that would attend. I'm not looking for an argument here, but a calm objective discussion. Why don't we have a get together in Greenwood at the Flatlands one night and have a real discussion about this. I don't mean people getting mad at everyone else and hating each other, but a I'll listen to your side if you'll listen to mine. Max I would love to talk with you on this subject as you seem to know alot about it and I don't want you to think I'm some backwoods redneck for the way I feel. As I'm sure I have not totaly explained how I feel about all this. Dawn I know is an educated man, but is also quiet most the time I feel and keeps alot of his real views to himself. Everyone seems to want change so maybe we could find away to start this change.
Yall pick the day and I will be there holding a civil tounge.
Spoon
edward killen
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Spoonallard
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Re: hey
[quote="lilwhitelie"] WHOAAAAAAA Cottennnnnnn!!!
Ok I take back "Hang emHigh" for everyone but a definate message is being sent to the criminals that hey 1 in 10 of us might get convicted! The key being MIGHT! If this is the best justice system we have then we are in serious trouble!! Letting 10 guilty people go means that there is a higher % chance that I will be robbed or my child kidnapped or my wife raped!! Don't much care for those odds! I believe you might err on this side of the fence if it were your wife or your child that becomes a victim because our "system" doesn't work to protect the victims!! The repeat stats of criminals tells us that there IS a problem!! Crime gets higher everyday and there are more and more victims and it is just a matter of time before it happens to someone close to you if nothing is ever done!! Just look at the way JPD operates!! Would you feel safe living there and having your children attend public school there or have your wife work late in the evening in west Jackson!! I think not!! If something isn't done then it is just a matter of time before you can't run anymore!! A MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE SENT THAT IF YOU DO THE CRIME YOU MUST DO THE TIME!! WE CAN"T AFFORD TO LET 10 CRIMINALS FOR EVERY INNOCENT PERSON ACCUSED!! NOw for the loopholes... OJ was free before the trial ever started but I don't feel like getting into that!! MONEY won that case and just one loophole was they put more emphasis on Mark Furman saying the word #igger than the anything else!!! WHATEVER!!!![/quote]
My quote "Better 10 guilty criminals go free than for one innocent citizen to be convicted of a crime they did not commit" was not intended to imply that I believe in being soft on crime. I assure you of the complete opposite. And I certainly hope a higher percentage of criminals are being convicted than only 1 in 10. But what I would fear a whole lot more than the criminals is a "low burden of proof system" giving over zealous bureaucrats an easier path to convict innocent folks due to political ambitions, grudges, etc.
Your comment about the JPD is a good example. A good friend of mine is very involved with "Habitat for Humanity" which causes him to be in some tough areas of town (West Jackson for example). He tells me one day they are watching a drug dealer do business on a corner. They call the JPD and report what is occurring. A couple of minutes later the dealer's cell phone rings and he splits. You get the picture. And this corruption is by the police, being paid to protect. But he can't tell half of the stories I can with regards to the JPD. Now give these same corrupt police people the power to "hang em high" like the good old days and see how quick you would want our "high burden of proof" system back.
I agree 110% with your point "A MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE SENT THAT IF YOU DO THE CRIME YOU MUST DO THE TIME!!" as long as the criminal is convicted beyond a reasonable doubt under a "heavy burden of proof" system. And by the way, that same message applies to Killen, Delay and every other white criminal out there.
As for Jackson, MS you are preaching to the quior. I would rather eat a cat $#!+ sandwich for breakfast every morning than live or work in Jackson ever again or especially send my children to the public schools there. Melton is most probably Jackson, Mississippi's last chance.
You and I agree a whole lot more than you probably thought after reading my post. And I'm for the death penalty with some of the crimes you mentioned above as long as the criminal is convicted under a heavy burden of proof system and beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately with this system, the best in the world, a few OJ's and MJ's will slip through the cracks.
Ok I take back "Hang emHigh" for everyone but a definate message is being sent to the criminals that hey 1 in 10 of us might get convicted! The key being MIGHT! If this is the best justice system we have then we are in serious trouble!! Letting 10 guilty people go means that there is a higher % chance that I will be robbed or my child kidnapped or my wife raped!! Don't much care for those odds! I believe you might err on this side of the fence if it were your wife or your child that becomes a victim because our "system" doesn't work to protect the victims!! The repeat stats of criminals tells us that there IS a problem!! Crime gets higher everyday and there are more and more victims and it is just a matter of time before it happens to someone close to you if nothing is ever done!! Just look at the way JPD operates!! Would you feel safe living there and having your children attend public school there or have your wife work late in the evening in west Jackson!! I think not!! If something isn't done then it is just a matter of time before you can't run anymore!! A MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE SENT THAT IF YOU DO THE CRIME YOU MUST DO THE TIME!! WE CAN"T AFFORD TO LET 10 CRIMINALS FOR EVERY INNOCENT PERSON ACCUSED!! NOw for the loopholes... OJ was free before the trial ever started but I don't feel like getting into that!! MONEY won that case and just one loophole was they put more emphasis on Mark Furman saying the word #igger than the anything else!!! WHATEVER!!!![/quote]
My quote "Better 10 guilty criminals go free than for one innocent citizen to be convicted of a crime they did not commit" was not intended to imply that I believe in being soft on crime. I assure you of the complete opposite. And I certainly hope a higher percentage of criminals are being convicted than only 1 in 10. But what I would fear a whole lot more than the criminals is a "low burden of proof system" giving over zealous bureaucrats an easier path to convict innocent folks due to political ambitions, grudges, etc.
Your comment about the JPD is a good example. A good friend of mine is very involved with "Habitat for Humanity" which causes him to be in some tough areas of town (West Jackson for example). He tells me one day they are watching a drug dealer do business on a corner. They call the JPD and report what is occurring. A couple of minutes later the dealer's cell phone rings and he splits. You get the picture. And this corruption is by the police, being paid to protect. But he can't tell half of the stories I can with regards to the JPD. Now give these same corrupt police people the power to "hang em high" like the good old days and see how quick you would want our "high burden of proof" system back.
I agree 110% with your point "A MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE SENT THAT IF YOU DO THE CRIME YOU MUST DO THE TIME!!" as long as the criminal is convicted beyond a reasonable doubt under a "heavy burden of proof" system. And by the way, that same message applies to Killen, Delay and every other white criminal out there.
As for Jackson, MS you are preaching to the quior. I would rather eat a cat $#!+ sandwich for breakfast every morning than live or work in Jackson ever again or especially send my children to the public schools there. Melton is most probably Jackson, Mississippi's last chance.
You and I agree a whole lot more than you probably thought after reading my post. And I'm for the death penalty with some of the crimes you mentioned above as long as the criminal is convicted under a heavy burden of proof system and beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately with this system, the best in the world, a few OJ's and MJ's will slip through the cracks.
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Po Monkey Lounger
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Guys, my comments were not intended to pass judgement on anyone on this board ----that is not my style. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, and I respect that. My only intent was to point out that there are folks (like me) who think that time passed, old age and bad health of the criminals, and other such reasons are not sufficient to justify continuing to do nothing.
I'm not a big fan of our AG's recent activities either. Although I voted for and supported him in the last election , know him personally, and was in law school with him, I think he has made some mistakes in judgement by placing himself into partisan political battles that have nothing to do with the proper mission of the AG. Due to this, I think that he will find less crossover support in the next election.
However, I find no fault in the AG's support of the prosecution of Killen by the local DA in that county. I am presuming that the local prosecutor felt that he had sufficient evidence to proceed with this prosecution. This local prosecutor does not appear to me to be a guy that seeks public attention; nor does he appear to be a politico. Moreover, from what I have read, it appears that there is a lot of local support for the prosecution and efforts to put this horrible stain behind them and move on. Having many of the primary participants in the murders still walking around the streets of the community as free men can only serve as a roadblock to moving on. Thus, the AG's involvement and support appears to be the type of thing he should be doing (as opposed to some of the partisan meddling he has engaged in as referenced above).
If there is no conviction of Killen, then I would expect that the prosecutions of the remaining suspects would end. If they cannot convict Killen, the alleged mastermind of the murders, then the chances of success on the others would be highly questionable. In the even of an acquittal of Killen, and subsequent prosecutions of other suspects, then I would agree that such would appear to be purely politically motivated.
As far as the facts of this matter, I really do not know any more about it than anyone else who has read about it in magazine articles, newspapers, or seen reports in the media. I have no "inside" information. I think it is telling that the people that do have "inside" information, who grew up in the area, etc., are not saying that the guy is innocent, but only questioning the timing of the prosecution. To which a guy like me responds, if he is guilty, why not prosecute?
Rest assured Spoonallard, I don't think ill of you or anyone else on this board ---- you are all great guys, IMO. Many of us have broken bread together and bonded over many cold brews. If you guys want to chew the fat over this some time at the wooly swamp over a few beers, I would enjoy the dialogue and opportunity at "expounding" (as my Dad used to call it).
I'm not a big fan of our AG's recent activities either. Although I voted for and supported him in the last election , know him personally, and was in law school with him, I think he has made some mistakes in judgement by placing himself into partisan political battles that have nothing to do with the proper mission of the AG. Due to this, I think that he will find less crossover support in the next election.
However, I find no fault in the AG's support of the prosecution of Killen by the local DA in that county. I am presuming that the local prosecutor felt that he had sufficient evidence to proceed with this prosecution. This local prosecutor does not appear to me to be a guy that seeks public attention; nor does he appear to be a politico. Moreover, from what I have read, it appears that there is a lot of local support for the prosecution and efforts to put this horrible stain behind them and move on. Having many of the primary participants in the murders still walking around the streets of the community as free men can only serve as a roadblock to moving on. Thus, the AG's involvement and support appears to be the type of thing he should be doing (as opposed to some of the partisan meddling he has engaged in as referenced above).
If there is no conviction of Killen, then I would expect that the prosecutions of the remaining suspects would end. If they cannot convict Killen, the alleged mastermind of the murders, then the chances of success on the others would be highly questionable. In the even of an acquittal of Killen, and subsequent prosecutions of other suspects, then I would agree that such would appear to be purely politically motivated.
As far as the facts of this matter, I really do not know any more about it than anyone else who has read about it in magazine articles, newspapers, or seen reports in the media. I have no "inside" information. I think it is telling that the people that do have "inside" information, who grew up in the area, etc., are not saying that the guy is innocent, but only questioning the timing of the prosecution. To which a guy like me responds, if he is guilty, why not prosecute?
Rest assured Spoonallard, I don't think ill of you or anyone else on this board ---- you are all great guys, IMO. Many of us have broken bread together and bonded over many cold brews. If you guys want to chew the fat over this some time at the wooly swamp over a few beers, I would enjoy the dialogue and opportunity at "expounding" (as my Dad used to call it).
You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.
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lilwhitelie
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heyyyy
Cotten stated that there needs to be HIGH BURDEN OF PROOF to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt!! Do you think for on minute that after 40years that peoples memories of the events can be 100% believable to convince the jury beyond a shadow of a doubt!! The evidence hasn't changed but too much time has passed to have a high enough burden of proof to convict this man!! I am not saying he didn't have anything to do with it but if he is convicted it just gives people more incentive to drag more crap up from the past and try and convict more 80 year old people!! Before you know it we are no further from moving on than before!! Before you know it 40 years has passed and we will be retrying OJ and MJ!! Boy I bet MJ would look rough at 80!
Cotten this is for you!!! You will appreciate that I was at Parham Bridges the other day and a group of Democrats were playing beside some ladies and of all things were playing baseball!! After being told numerus times to leave they said they were only being told to leave because they were black!! This is the message that is being sent to these little democrats that if you are doing wrong and a white person says you are then just pull out the race card!! The cops had to be called but you know how long that took!! Luckily before they came a black lady we play with found out what they said and reemed them out and they wanted no part of that angry black woman and left as fast as possible!!!
Cotten this is for you!!! You will appreciate that I was at Parham Bridges the other day and a group of Democrats were playing beside some ladies and of all things were playing baseball!! After being told numerus times to leave they said they were only being told to leave because they were black!! This is the message that is being sent to these little democrats that if you are doing wrong and a white person says you are then just pull out the race card!! The cops had to be called but you know how long that took!! Luckily before they came a black lady we play with found out what they said and reemed them out and they wanted no part of that angry black woman and left as fast as possible!!!
HRCH JB'S LIL WHITE LIE
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Spoonallard
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Monkey I'm glad you feel that way as I know I sometimes come over as a loud mouth. ( Teul2 don't even start). I do agree that if Killen did it he should have been burnt at the stake along time ago.
I think what I and others are saying is that this is not about justice for most blacks. It is just another way for them to put the white people in there place and say that they are going to take over at all cost.
This is the thing that upsets me. My dads best friend is black and although I was born in the Delta, I was brought up to treat the black man as an equal. In the last few years that has changed for me. It is not because I don't see them as equal men, but because of what they do with their equality.
I do relize that the white majority is to blame for their past economic failures, but this is over and they have the same chances as you and I. I came from a cross between a poor family on my dads side and middle class on my mothers. I paid for what college I have myself, and make a very decent living over 60k a year. I owe noone for that but myself as it was obtained soely by me. What bothers me is how they act when they can do the same thing I have. Christ I went to boarding school to finish high school on a scholarship.
So to put it to rest If I can do it so can anyone else cause I ain't the smartest cat that ever lived. I am however a survivor. I have never been given anything, and you want hear me crying my dad was a drunk and a indian and noone would give me a chance.
The cold one sounds good. I just say lets stop complaining and find a way to change it before my children have to live through what the blacks did fifty years ago.
Yours truly in Seagrams Seven
Spoon
I think what I and others are saying is that this is not about justice for most blacks. It is just another way for them to put the white people in there place and say that they are going to take over at all cost.
This is the thing that upsets me. My dads best friend is black and although I was born in the Delta, I was brought up to treat the black man as an equal. In the last few years that has changed for me. It is not because I don't see them as equal men, but because of what they do with their equality.
I do relize that the white majority is to blame for their past economic failures, but this is over and they have the same chances as you and I. I came from a cross between a poor family on my dads side and middle class on my mothers. I paid for what college I have myself, and make a very decent living over 60k a year. I owe noone for that but myself as it was obtained soely by me. What bothers me is how they act when they can do the same thing I have. Christ I went to boarding school to finish high school on a scholarship.
So to put it to rest If I can do it so can anyone else cause I ain't the smartest cat that ever lived. I am however a survivor. I have never been given anything, and you want hear me crying my dad was a drunk and a indian and noone would give me a chance.
The cold one sounds good. I just say lets stop complaining and find a way to change it before my children have to live through what the blacks did fifty years ago.
Yours truly in Seagrams Seven
Spoon
"Therefore, even the lover of myth is in a sense a philosopher; for myth is composed of wonders."
-- Aristotle
-- Aristotle
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lilwhitelie
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DITTO
DITTO that SPONNIE!!!! I also have a good many friends and coworkers that are black but the key is THEY WORKKKKKKKKK!!! They aren't sitting on the porch drinking forty's and having as many kids as possible to drain and deplete the "system"!! They don't want any handouts and are great people!! I am just sick of able body people balck or not( but figures point out that blacks are by far more notorius for it) beating the system and crying about how wrong they have been done!!! It never fails that they(the blacks) point out that the whites get a better education and their schools get more money!! BULLCHET!!!! The numbers show that the mostly black public schools get a lot more money than the mostly white schools!! It doesn't matter how much money you pour into their schools if their parents aren't role models then they will just follow their lead!! Unfortunatly my wife had the pleasure of teaching in a South Jackson school and she said the parents could care less about their kids when approached about behavior problems and poor grades etc!! They said your the teacher you fix it that is what we pay you for!!!!! That is the attitude that is what keeps J-town in the shape it is in!! Here is another subject!!! Jackson trys to annex everybody.. Byrum, Clinton etc or they want workers that don't live in the city of Jackson to pay a friggin tax to work there!!!!! Another example of we owe them something for getting out of their drug filled, crime ridden city!! They can't take care of what they have but they see the people that actually work are leaving to cities such as Madison, Clinton, Brandon etc!!! Hell even the businesses are leaving just look at Flowood!! #5 city in the US for business growth!!!! I hope Frank Melton can help out but we will see!!!
HRCH JB'S LIL WHITE LIE
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Spoonallard
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I agree I moved from Greenwood to Jackson when I was Five. Moved to Clinton when I was 13. When I got out of boarding school Lakeland dr. was a waste land all of the way to Castle Woods. Now When I go to visit HapHaz, Who lives in Castle Woods I almost miss the turn due to all of the sprawl. I remeber When I was a kid the only mall we had was the original Jackson Mall. They had a little toy store there thet played Hanna Barbera cartoons all day for a dollar. Your parents could leave you there and shop nowing you could watch cartoons all day and noone would kidnap you. They didn't even stamp your hands. I remember when Metrocenter was built and when it went bad. The young gang members would drag women under their cars a rape them. Then I remember in hihgschool when they built Northpark and it only had TEN stores. Now they tell me to stay the hell away from there. It is time for all of this to stop. The sad thing is if we don't take it upon ourselves to do it no one will.
Spoon
Spoon
"Therefore, even the lover of myth is in a sense a philosopher; for myth is composed of wonders."
-- Aristotle
-- Aristotle
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Bustin' Ducks
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lilwhitelie
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part
Yea Bustinducks I agree he MAY have had a part in it but that WAZ 40 years ago and these people that are testifying May remember what happened and they May not!! No way to convict him now beyond a shadow of a doubt!!! Hell OJ had a part in Ron and Nicholes murder but he got away huh???? We can't convict everyone but for goodness sake there couldn't have been anymore evidence in history than that case!! I rest my case!!!!
HRCH JB'S LIL WHITE LIE
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lilwhitelie
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one more!!
When Bill Cosby spoke what he felt about the African American young men in particular, he was blackballed by the Afroamerican people!! They don't want to hear the truth about what is going on, they just want to blame everybody else for their misfortunes and take no responsibilities to make it better!!! Miss Black USA, Miss Black America etc etc etc but the minute there is a White anything then We are nothing but racist biggist and Mr. Cosby was an "Uncle Tom"!! Until the African American community can say that the numbers are right and there is a problem then nothing will change!! You can't blame something on somebody forever!!!!!
HRCH JB'S LIL WHITE LIE
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Bustin' Ducks
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Yeah agree on OJ..his booty should be UNDER the jail..as for Killens....2 wrongs don't make ANY right...I guarantee ya..He could remember fishin' or hunting, or takin' a nice evening "ride" w/ his "boys"...All I'm saying..If and when he is found guilty..then NO matter how old he is...He should do his sentence...
I may go to Heaven, or I may go to hell....But one thing is for certain..It'll be after Duck season!!
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Spoonallard
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Bustin' Ducks wrote:Yeah agree on OJ..his booty should be UNDER the jail..as for Killens....2 wrongs don't make ANY right...I guarantee ya..He could remember fishin' or hunting, or takin' a nice evening "ride" w/ his "boys"...All I'm saying..If and when he is found guilty..then NO matter how old he is...He should do his sentence...
This is true. I don't care how old he is either, but this should have been over with along time ago and to me it's just another atempt to hash up some old $#!+ so we don't forget why they are all on welfare
Spoon
"Therefore, even the lover of myth is in a sense a philosopher; for myth is composed of wonders."
-- Aristotle
-- Aristotle
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the doctor
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just getting to take all this in...but I am with Monkey on this one
bring some resolution to it so we can put it behind us, especially for the people of those communities
I got a very good friend whose brother is on the MS Highway Patrol
he was supposed to help us this weekend and couldnt b/c he had to be at the trial...this was the first I believe I have heard of it
maybe I recaal this from stories in the past, the tale was all too familiar so I was not oblivious that this had happened, but damn its old news...lets move on
the only problem I can foresee is that our state and the south for that matter are likely laden with these type of occurences and we may never see the end of them
the doc
bring some resolution to it so we can put it behind us, especially for the people of those communities
I got a very good friend whose brother is on the MS Highway Patrol
he was supposed to help us this weekend and couldnt b/c he had to be at the trial...this was the first I believe I have heard of it
maybe I recaal this from stories in the past, the tale was all too familiar so I was not oblivious that this had happened, but damn its old news...lets move on
the only problem I can foresee is that our state and the south for that matter are likely laden with these type of occurences and we may never see the end of them
the doc
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Bustin' Ducks
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Re: one more!!
lilwhitelie wrote:When Bill Cosby spoke what he felt about the African American young men in particular, he was blackballed by the Afroamerican people!! They don't want to hear the truth about what is going on, they just want to blame everybody else for their misfortunes and take no responsibilities to make it better!!! Miss Black USA, Miss Black America etc etc etc but the minute there is a White anything then We are nothing but racist biggist and Mr. Cosby was an "Uncle Tom"!! Until the African American community can say that the numbers are right and there is a problem then nothing will change!! You can't blame something on somebody forever!!!!!
I whole-heartedly agree...However, I believe the KKK was and still is as cowardly as the secret meeting they held (what's left of them) punk azzez..and one can't kill another person because they are different..I feel the blacks do think we the white race owe them something...and I think I don't owe them chit!!
I may go to Heaven, or I may go to hell....But one thing is for certain..It'll be after Duck season!!
"Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa - rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet. Yet he never picked one up from the dust until a White man showed to him its glittering light. His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud. With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail! He lived as his fathers lived - stole his food, worked his wife, sold his children, ate his brother, content to drink, sing, dance, and sport as the ape."
~ Thomas Dixon
Big picture - have to think about the African's thousands of years of attitudes, morals, values, character, and importance of life. Yes, other races used this to mistreat blacks (i.e. slavery). However, the US has gone too far to "correct" this wrong. Blacks have been spoiled by being given too much. Nothing has really been "earned". Our education system has been ruined by lowering standards and not challenging students. Our judicial system is a farce becuase of weak, minimal sentences for crimes. In the workplace, affirmative action has degraded any sense of work ethic. Blacks are simply content to receive handouts because liberals promote policy based on feelings. What happens when you raise a child with no discipline? A child that is handed everything? A child that does not have to earn anything? Makes it tough when they get into the real world, doesn't it? Same thing has happened with the blacks in America.
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