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Warren wrote:I would like to get another dvd on the handling aspect of it. What ones do yall suggest. It seems that my dog will take a while to learn this. Some days she does great others not so. I would like to attack this problem from another angle so (DIB if your out there) I would like to get another dvd to look at.

Warren: The Roem DVD is not a training DVD at all. Just about how to be a better handler, what this guy or that guy could have done better/different. Much detail about that, no detail on how to train out cast refusals and stuff. I would not want someone to spend $100 on a DVD set and not realize it is JUST handing from the aspect of "how the human can do better." It is good info, though.

I've got one that gets a little high at the line as well , built a 2' x 2' platform 4 " tall monday . I have run marks off of it everyday this week and he's yet to step off of it , makes it very black and white to the dog .

Now yesterday we trained and I did not have it and he got his creep ON , I may have to ask judges if I can haul my platform to the line ( if he ever goes to the line again

Obvious why women and men don't understand each other ........and have issues when trying to relate

men, obviously think they are doing the "right" thing - protecting the woman

when the woman wants an honest and upfront man who will then hold and protect her ........

ahhh .......what a dilema - I agree with the Lady ........gentlemen !! WAKE UP - Women don't like deception ...........we want the truth .........and and then the knight and shining armour............ at this point .......do you think any chance you could get a look a like dog .......or replacement dog before she hits the runway ???????? Its not a fix all......but sure does show some LOVE and EFFORT .......

I'm sorry, how does this relate to mats?????

huntergirlhotty wrote:Obvious why women and men don't understand each other ........and have issues when trying to relate

men, obviously think they are doing the "right" thing - protecting the woman

when the woman wants an honest and upfront man who will then hold and protect her ........

ahhh .......what a dilema - I agree with the Lady ........gentlemen !! WAKE UP - Women don't like deception ...........we want the truth .........and and then the knight and shining armour............ at this point .......do you think any chance you could get a look a like dog .......or replacement dog before she hits the runway ???????? Its not a fix all......but sure does show some LOVE and EFFORT .......

So you use the mat to show the dawg where you want him? sorry if this is a stupid question but I'm just trying to learn

huntergirlhotty wrote:Obvious why women and men don't understand each other ........and have issues when trying to relate

men, obviously think they are doing the "right" thing - protecting the woman

when the woman wants an honest and upfront man who will then hold and protect her ........

ahhh .......what a dilema - I agree with the Lady ........gentlemen !! WAKE UP - Women don't like deception ...........we want the truth .........and and then the knight and shining armour............ at this point .......do you think any chance you could get a look a like dog .......or replacement dog before she hits the runway ???????? Its not a fix all......but sure does show some LOVE and EFFORT .......

Hotty: I think you beez postin this on the wrong thread!

Exactly man.. the mat is a defined boundry, black and white. a platform is more dramatic, hence in training your drawing the lines as clear as you can. travis

Ok so what are some good dvd's out there to show handling. I have read a bunch but I learn my seeing. Just the way I am.

I got a question: If you train exclusively with a "mat", when the "mat" is not there do any of you guys still have the creeping problem? If so, is the "mat" doing anything but building your confidence?

I understand it is a black and white for a dog, but does it actually teach them to sit by your side, or do they see it as nothing more than sitting on a "mat"?

Not being a smart booty, honest, just really been wondering since this thread started.

Would you consider using the platform if when returning to heel the dog is not consistent? Sometimes she sets in front a little too much and sometimes she is lagging behind. I can give a quick heel and she is johnny on the spot. Never had this problem, she has drive, but does not get to heel as quick as other dogs I have had. Repetition maybe. I have let her get in the habit of circling behind me on return and then to heel. I would like to transition to a left return into heel without the loop. Any thoughts.

Faithful Retriever.

I believe that using a platform will help establish a pattern to come directly to heel. without making the loop. I have used bins (platic tubs9" deep, 2ft x 3ft), and platforms (stackable patio side tables 18" x18"x18"} for this purpose. It gives the dog a target to return to heel. It also avoids over shooting on those energetic returns.

Using a check cord with repetitive short retrieves also helps control them to come directly to heel.

Or just drill on the heel on recall routine with the 6ft leash. Just practice basic routines at first without the retrieves.

As my dog advances I have two platforms or bins, one to my left and one to my right. As my dog approaches for the return, I tap on the one on the left or right as I choose for the dog to heel left or right. Then I transfer that to a hand signal left and right pointing open hand to the desired side.

You can also give him a verbal cue for left and right heel.

If you have a dog new to this, you might first have to teach them how to get into the bin or get up on the platform with the associated command or hand signal.

This has helped me over the years of training dogs. Very effective. Very useful for remote stays and other training and hunting applications.

Good Luck.

Denlan

in any kind of training, you are looking for sucessful behavior, by being sucessful, and correcting for disobedience. Any dog worth having will take an booty whooping for a bird... and a true creeper wont be 'fixxed' by an booty whooping. once the habit of creeping is ingrained, running series after series of a pounding followed by getting the bird, make the dog creep more... they'll take it for a bird, its now foreplay. by using a platform, and stopping everything when they get off of it, you made it black and white and eveutanlly they will understand. is it magic, no nothing is. but lots of sucessful series, followed by a few without a platform (i.e. a hunt test weekend) is a lot more likely to happen, than a bunch of series with an booty pounding, then a hunt test weekend they get looser and looser, and then a monday booty pounding. you just telegraphed the difference between training and tests by 'working' on the problem before and after. establish a standard, pick a dog upo if you have too. travis

I got you, I was just wonderin. Good explanation!

Thanks

Warren: Wait for Fowl Dawgs II to come out in the next couple of weeks and get it. Or...if you want something now get Evan Grahams CD, Smartwork Basic Handling which includes 3-handed casting, Mini T, Single T, and Double T.

You want tons of articles on handling and drills? Get Butch Goodwins, Training Retrievers from the Inside Out. It's loaded with simple, easy to read instructions.

I've heard Lardy is suppose to be coming out with some new material, if so, jump on that for sure!!

Good Luck!

Used the platform this weekend and there is already good progress with the heel. She is still fighting me on the coming in left. She has been allowed so many times to circle it may not be worth the fight at this point. Just clean it up. My other dogs just figured it out that its easier as I guess she will. The chord did not work to well, a bigger fight.
What would you think? I sit her about a foot or two in front on return take a step up where she just turns and is at heel. Trying to make it black and white that you don't have to walk behind me everytime.