DuckSouth.com

Yea but you pay taxes. Able Ammo no taxes but the shipping is about the same amount as taxes would be and they are less expensive.

The shells are one of the most important, if not the most important. Do like I do and bum smokes, pick up cans or borrows money from the kids. I always shoot good winchester shells. They are no douth the best shell on the market.
I have shot a few rounds.
Fiocchi makes the second best shell for dove.

The main thing that makes a lead (not steel)load "good" or "bad" is not how much powder it has, since the difference in forward allowance at 40 yards is about an inch with 1200 fps vs. 1300 fps loads. All the abuse on your neurological system isn't worth it.

The thing that makes most loads good or bad is the % of antimony in the shot that makes it hard. You want at least 3%, and you can find up to 6% in some exotic target loads. So, IMHO, the best dove load is ANY #7.5 standard target load from Winchester/Remington/Fiocchi since they have the highest % of antimony in their shot. Harder shot = less scrubbing=less "whiffle ball" flyers that spin off out of your pattern and do you no good. Plus hard shot loaded slower in FPS will pattern a little tighter than faster soft shot. I likes it tight..... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Has anyone in Mississippi purchased any shells from ABLEAMMO before? How much are the shipping charges for a 10 box case of 12 guage shells to MS? It should be easy for 2-3 friends to get together and order 25 cases if that is the "free freight" amount.....acornman

Bass pro shops had some field load for 19.95 a case. I was meaning to go back and look to see what they had, but forgot after seeing those big ole bass in the tank. I believe they were feds.

Outlaw.com has B&P dove loads for 50 a case.

I was in BassPro yesterday. It is true the Remington cheapy's are $1.99 a box. Be careful of what you get though, the 12ga. "dove load" only contains 7/8oz. of shot. This is normally the standard load for a 20ga. shell. However, I agree with the judge that just about anything should work on opening day in a decent field. I shot this same load last year and the only fault I found was "operator error". It was woth the trip just to watch all them people trying to get to the display case to get their two case limit! Looked like a human ant farm!!!

You pay no tax when ordering from AbleAmmo unless you live in Texas.
GulfC...Estate claims its shot in the 1oz 7.5's is and I quote "Extra Hard". Do you know if it is as hard as they should be?

DB: I am not sure as to the hardness of that shot. I would assume it would be at least as hard as Lawrence Brand Magnum Shot, which is about 3.5% antimony. Estate usually makes good loads, though.

I got my dad a 1/2 case of heavy load estate #9's last year, damn good shells.

Here is the text of a post on Bruce Buck's website www.shotgunreport.com that I found today about shot hardness/antimony:

******
One of our readers brought the Lawrence shot site to my attention
because it lists the antimonal content of their brand of shot. I think
it's might be helpful to cover what antimony does to lead shot in
general. It's a subject every shooter who cares what his patterns look
like should be aware of.

Antimony is the metal element used to increase the hardness of lead
shot. All lead shot that I am familiar with (a CYA comment if ever
there was one), has some antimony in the mix. The most common pellet
formation processes require some antimony. Likewise, the most common
processes limit the amount of antimony that can be used before the
pellets are produced out-of-round.

The numbers appear to be between 2% at the low end and 6% at the high
end. "Lawrence" brand is a major player in shot. Go to
<http://www.metalico.com/lead_shot.htm> and check out their antimony
percentages. You'll find that "chilled" shot and all shot sizes #4 and
larger get 2% antimony, while the "magnum" shot in target sizes 6~9
are 5% to 6% antimony. Larger pellets don't need as much hardening
antimony due to their size and bulk alone resisting deformation.

The words "magnum" and "chilled" themselves don't mean a darn thing.
It's strictly a "Cleaner! Whiter! Brighter!" kind of ad spiel.
Different brand also use different amounts of antimony. A comparison
of the Star brand shot made in Peru to the same brand's shot made in
Argentina can be an eye-opener. Just because Lawrence uses certain
percentages of antimony doesn't mean that others do.

The reason that antimony is used in premium pellets is that it is
expensive. In the past number of years antimony has fluctuated between
$1 and $1.80 per pound. Lead is right around $.20 per pound. That
means that antimony is 5 to 9 times the cost of lead. The less
antimony you can get away with, the less your shot will cost to make.
That's why cheap pellets have less.

Does hard shot matter? Well, shot hardness is only one of the
components of good shell performance, but it is an important one. When
I pattern tested Remington STS shells vs cheaper Remington Gun Club
ammo with softer shot, a choke that delivered 60% with the STS opened
up to 50% with the Gun Club. The only change was the shell. This isn't
to say that softer shot doesn't have its uses or isn't adequate in
certain circumstances. It's just to say that soft shot is less
reliable and produces a bigger spread in pattern averages. Patterns
from good shells can easily vary 10% in pattern density during a test
string of 10 shots. The variation in shells with softer shot will be
more than that due to more deformed pellets and their random
activities
*****

GulfCoast,

I think I understand the concept of hard shot, antimony etc. but how bout explaining the correct ratio of drams of powder to the ounce of shot. Referring back to my previous post about 3 1/4 drams powder to 1 ounce of shot, that someone said was to hot for the amount of shot. They said it was (blowing holes in the pattern). I guess another was to ask the question is if you have good quality shot, Whats a good load (drams of powder and ounces of shot) for doves in early season say in a 12 ga and 20ga. And what would be a good load for the same for late dove season.

This is hard to answer with any certainty without knowing the exact recipe involved.

Generally, the rule is, from a common choke, slow loads of large hard pellets pattern tight, fast loads of small pellets pattern more openly and/or open more quickly. The smaller the payload, and the faster the velocity, the more quickly the pattern will open, and the wider it will get at a given distance.

So, I am thinking that what you observed was a shell with so much powder behind so little shot that it just spread all to heck and gave you a really patchy pattern. The opposite is too much choke with too large shot that gives you a "blown" pattern that looks just like a donut. I think 1300 fps is about as fast as you can push 7/8 or 1 oz of shot and still get good patterns, unless you use some of that 9% antimony the Brits load. You will pay out the wazoo for such loads.

I think that the best all around dove load, for the average guy, is a 2 3/4 or 3 dram target load of 1 1/8 oz of 7.5 or 8 shot. Opening day stupid doves have #9's written all over them.

I am happy as a clam early in the season with 12 gauge 7/8 oz or 1 oz loads, AS LONG AS they have good hard shot and keep tight patterns. A 1200 fps 7/8 oz load in a 12 gauge is like shooting a bb gun. When the doves get spooky, I go to a 1 1/8 oz 3 dram (heavy) trapload in #7.5.

I am sure Anat. and others will chime in here, too.

The best load I have found in a while, this side of reloads, is a Remington Nitro Gold Sporting Clay. The Remington site advertises them as new for 2002, but I bought over a case of them at Wal-Mart last year. They come in 7 1/2 and 8 shot, and if I am not mistaken, they have 6% antimonty shot in them. Remington does not advertise the Drams eq., but the velocity is 1300 fps with 1 1/8 oz. of shot. I patterned them on paper and they were awesome in my gun with no holes blown in the pattern. They are basically the same as the Winchester AA Sporting Clay shell, which is configured the same as the Remington on shot sizes offered and velocity. I shot both out of my Benelli Auto w/mod. choke, they were nothing short of RUFF on the birds. I shot an I/C on one field with the same results. I think I paid $4.96 last year at Wal-Mart, and I will buy at least 1 more case this year.

They make GREAT reload hulls also!!

The estates are good shells but I really like the PMC heavy dove loads. Good hard shot and it will flat bust a dove's @$$. Go with #8's. I'll have to dig up a box to find the spec's.

Most important - the hulls are blue and I like blue.