question for some of you "older" 30+ year old duck

[RebelYelp]

Delta,

maybe ''older'' wasn't the proper word, just meant older than me. it just seemed like when i was younger like Scooter said we just hunted because we loved it, didn't pay attention to May pond counts or water up north. I was just curious if you guys did back in the old days. and even though i am young (20) and only have 14 years or so experience, i have seen the ''tornado'' coming down into a timber hole and rice field with ducks everywhere and no end to them and it is an amazing experience. Even this past year we did get in on good hunts, while they weren't as common an occurance as in the past, it was still an enjoyable season. Like Merle Haggard says, ''The Good Times Ain't Over for Good....'' that's my stance on it.

Jake

[La. Legend]

Legend-That's probably the best evaluation of the situation I've read since I joined the internet.

Well sporty I know a lot of young wise men who are deader than a mofo but I've never known an old man who got to be that way by being a fool.

There are more pieces to this puzzle that we haven't quiet figured out where to put them yet. We can't discount the fact that the actual numbers of birds have not been sufficent to sustain teh 60/6 seasons we've been getting. Even with the way over inflated December counts, 3.2 million in La. was a joke and a slap in the face to us that knew better, when you add them all up it doesn't come close to being adequate for a 60/6 season.

Leasing is becoming the same cancer in states to our North that it is right here at home. More and more Northern farmers are discovering this huge cash cow called leasing and are flooding their fields for duck hunters. Now I don't begrudge a farmer for making a living anyway he can but it's reaping havoc on what we once considered to be the natiral migration of birds. Habitat is popping up over night, via the water pump, that hasn't been there in years past. Fetch is raising hell about this very thing over at teh fuge about DU property in ND that could end up in the hands of a commercial outfitter. Apparently many ND duck hunters see this as a big issue and one they would like to avoid.

Hunting pressure is a new can of worms that we've just opened as well. No one knows what kind of impact it really has on migrating birds. Our good friends at Delta will be starting a research study on this so hopefully soon we can have some answers to this as well. Lack of hunting pressure does attract and hold birds inside the blue lines at NWR's. I've witnessed this first hand. Mollicy Farms is the no hunt area of the Upper Ouachita NWR near my home. It's a 16,000 acre moist soil unit. Teh feds also pay a farmer bug bucks after he harvest it not to hunt 2 sections of land adjacent to it for an additional food plot. While hunting success in this area was only fair this 16,000 acres held a million birds. I've witnessed this on 2 different occasions. Another similar moist soil until only minutes from my house can offer you one of the most bizzare sights you've ever witnessed. You can actually drive to the waters edge and get out of your car while wild mallard ducks only 40 yards away will sit there and look at you. Now that not right and it goes way pass the norm. Those birds should have flushed the minute they first saw your vehicle. Many propose opening these areas to hunting from time to time. My suggestion would be to have a youth hunt once a week. The kids wouldn't kill all that many birds but they would shoot alot and have a good time.

The lack of ducks is a multi faceted problem and one in which there is no quick cure. Not the feds or DU nor Delta have any quick fixes for what we're facing. As sold as I am on Deltas PM projects it won't do us much good if they don't come this far South. The same can be said for DU's wanting more habitat. You can't tell a farmer what to grow or what he can and can't do with his land for financial gain. There is one area that very much needs exploring. According the Migratory Bird Act it is illegal to use bait for the purpose of capturing birds and altering the natural distribution. Many feel, myself included, thats exactly what the feds have done by introducing unharvested food plots in no hunt zones of the NWR's. It doesn't take rocket science to understand that birds will pile up in an area and not move if their is food and the abscence of hunting pressure. We are looking into this and a possible law suit is very much possible. In the grand scheme of things it probably won't amount to much as far as the migration goes but it would be a step in the right direction.

Lots of problems and not many answers.

[mudsucker]

They can post that the "May ponds all dried up" and I'll bet there are those like me that will be out there next season! Info is good but when it comes time for the season the hell with all what's wrong and what's right with the weather, we just want to get in the field and do some hunting!!!! We did it 24 years ago when I started and we'll do it again next year. I like the advent of all this info on the web and the weather channel but, I like to be in the blind and forget about "the outside world" for a while!!!

[La. Legend]

Well said mud and I totally agree. This isn't a bitch about not having full stringers every time we hunt but when the conversation after the hunt goes from "how many did you kill" to "how many did you see" it tends to take some of the fun out of it. My ol Daddy would roll over in his grave if he could see how excited we now get over the possibility of a shooting a spoonie. "Get down boys we got some spoonies workig out front" just aint suppose to be happenig down here.

[MSDuckmen]

Regardless of how anyone feels the few post on this subject in this thread is probably as close to the facts as one can get without intense research.
It is funny how you can go to the Refuge forum and do a search on spinners from two years ago and see where Benny and I and a few others said this would happen. No I do not believe it is all due to spinners but I do believe it has played a major roll. I preached about not shooting hens and took a lashing from those that said leave it up to the Biology boys to know what is safe and since I had no other choice that is what has happened. Yet now they are claiming that maybe we really don't have the birds we thought we did. Maybe hunting pressure does have an impact more than we think. Maybe maybe maybe...

Well as I said then and still believe today. You always make your decisions in favor of the ducks. So if you don't know if it will hurt the numbers then don't do it till you can prove it does'nt.

[sportsman450]

Benny and I and a few others said this would happen.

I preached

Have you ever sat back and looked at how arrogant some of your posts sound.You and osama-ben-maniac are not the only two people on the internet who understand the outdoors and hunting.

[MSDuckmen]

Have you ever sat back and looked at how arrogant some of your posts sound.You and osama-ben-maniac are not the only two people on the internet who understand the outdoors and hunting.

Sure I have looked at my post. Those that don't agree usually do call it arrogant, holier than thou, purist and a number of other names.

Problem is most can't get past the fact that it is true and it is easier to call names and point fingers than spend the time to learn.

I never claimed to be the only one that understands the outdoors. But I live it year round and the majority on here do not. That much I do know.

[mudsucker]

Well I do work for a living. It is great that it is on the water down on SW Pass for most of the time so I can observe ducks flying back and forth(Mottled Ducks this time of yer or Summer Mallards as we call them). It does make work more bearable to do something I enjoy in a setting that I enjoy.

[MSDuckmen]

It's more than just having to work Mud.

It's about being envolved in other aspects that would require you to give up some of your play time.

Let me just give you a small example..

I didn't see you at the Delta meeting a few weeks ago.
I didn't see you at the MDWF meeting a month or so ago.
I didn't see you out assisting in the regrowth of Cyprus trees to the REZ that you live by when we were out there.
I don't recall you ever posting about any real habitat or heritage meetings in anyway.
Do you teach hunters safety cources?
Do you volunteer to work the WMA's during planting season?
Do you get involved in leadership youth courses such as Magnolia Rifle club, Jackson Skeet range, Boy scouts, etc.

I'm not picking on you just giving you food for thought. It always intrest me that so many arm chair quarterbacks are so quick to disclaim those that have choosen to give up other interest for a heritage they love and study. This is not a pass time for me it is a way of life.

I value your opinion just as I do Sports but that does not make me wrong in mine. I have stack of studies done on the fly way that stands two feet tall. Studies from eggs to kills, Spinners to baiting. When I post it is not just a feeling and need to be right it is what I know from my studies and I didn't get that information watching football or drinking every friday night with my buds.

Most hunters can do more they just choose not to.

[La. Legend]

Duck I knew my comments about them spinning wing basturds would be too much for you to stay away from. Your points are well taken but I don't agree with all of them. Nothing new there huh? To error in favor of the ducks is a noble gesture but research has proven that it's not alway the correct thing to do. It's difficult to prove something is harmfull if you never take the action of doing it. It's kinda like the age old debate of which came first the chicken or the egg. Didn't I prove in front of you that I couldn't use the same size stick to cross that crik that you and Benny did? How would I have know that if I hadn't taken the action? Now that was a learning experience. A damn funny, wet, and muddy one but a learning experience none the less. Good solid factual biological data is what will be needed to susutain huntable populations and not ol timers fables of gloom and doom. Even I jumped on the anti spinner band wagon after having hunted over one for a year and seeing first hand the tremedous potential they had for impacting ducks. As strong as our convictions were they were just that. They were not grounded in any long term data. As it turned out the data proved we were correct but we could have just as easily been wrong. I know that rarely happens but it could. As a result of being allowed to be used many states are banning them and many more will follow. Good riddance but do you believe that would have ever happened just because some of us good ol boys thought they were harmfull? Years of experience is a tremendous asset but it doesn't always supply us with enough to find answers. You know I strongly believe and support what Delta is doing but there not always right either. A few years ago their early finding from research lead them to promote and ask for the closing of an entire season. After completing the project they realized they had been wrong in jumping to such conclusions based on such little data. Just as the 3 most important ingredients to a succesfull duck are location, location, and location it's reasearch, research, and research that will provide us with heathy duck numbers. Haven't we just recently learned that water, while a major player, is not the only ingredient needed for succesfull hatches? We would have never know this if somebody hadn't taken a maybe, maybe, maybe and did the research to prove this. It's not the lack of hens that's causing the population depletion but lack of suitable habitat. The dead hen lays no eggs theory only applies in the perfect world and we're a far cry from that where the ducks are concerned. Lengthy and intensive research has proven that shootin hens within limits as well as refraining from shootin them at all has no impact on future populations. Letting a hen pass is no guarantee she'll make it back to the nesting grounds or that she will hatch the first egg if she does. While it is very true a dead hen can't lay an egg it only will apply when we have more than enough adequate habitat to insure that she has the opprotunity to do so. We're a long way from being there. I know how strongly you feel about shooting hens inspite of the research and I admire that. I would never shoot one in front of you even if we were in my hole. Not because I believe your right but because I believe you believe your right. I believe they call that respect. I won't make the same promise if were in my hole for skillet shootin. Hell I don't always agree with our friends the biologist either and in fact they sometimes give a major case of the red booty. For 44 years I've had the opprotunity to hunt somewhere come duck season opener. Some years have been better than other and some down right sucked. The fact that I was out there tells me overall they haven't done a bad job. You know duck you and I never seem to always be on teh same side of the street when ducks are the issue but theres one thing I can always count on? Our love for duck hunting guarantees me I'll never have to look on a different street to find you. Take care ol friend.

[mudsucker]

MS duckman, THAT IS MY POINT! I work 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off(alot of times like last month a week of OT thrown in which gave me 3 weeks away from the house). I was on the ship for the aforementioned events, except for the rez tree planting, which I had not logged in at home for 2-3 days before that Fri. when you asked if anyone wanted to help(I read the post at 8p.m.) and was pizzed that I missed it 'cause I would love to help. You check the post from the DW townhall meeting and you will see my buddy Iron Grip was wondering if I was at work, and I replied that I hated to miss it but was indeed on board! I do get involved and am on the Rankin Co. Du committe and would love a dedicated individual(sp.) such as your self to help on the committe. PM me your contact info and I will make sure to give you a heads up on orginazational meetings and such, or we can speak at the gathering next tues. HOME FOR TWO WEEKS FOR A CHANGE!!!!!yeah As of next tues. that is!

[MSDuckmen]

Yes I know it is tough to do many things when you have to work and support a family. Gone for weeks at a time and come home "hell you want to stay home a while"
I was simply giving you food for thought because you answered in a sincere manner.

I will tell you this about me. I gave up a job working for a Graphics Art company making nearly 100,000 a year for a government job making a fourth of that to follow my love of the outdoors. I gave up gunsmithing because the busiest time of the year was when I wanted to be in the field.

My environment reaps of the heritage and all it offers.

I'm not saying that makes me any better or worse than the next guy only that is the bases of many of my debates. It always gets me when a guy starts dogging me for my beliefs. It is like a kid learning to ride a tricycle telling you that you don't know what the hell you’re talking about when you’re riding around on a unicycle.

[MSDuckmen]

Thanks for the reply Leg as always you bring things into perspective. I don't agree but good perspective anyway.

Just have to ask this question though..

The dead hen lays no eggs theory only applies in the perfect world and we're a far cry from that where the ducks are concerned.

What the he11 is that suppose to mean? It applies in every senerio of this world regardless how you look at it. The bird is dead it can and will not ever lay another egg. Habitat is very important and I'm yet to see a study except the one Steel3 pointed out that holds any real merit about killing hens. It was one study. remember Research research research...
If the numbers are down then the more hens you have the more nest you will have regardless.
Dang it don't take no brain to know this my 11 year old understand that.

With out a doubt a drake will and has proven in research that it will continue to mate with multiple hens in a given year. Many hens lay multiple nest if the first is destroyed.

For the life of me I can't see why people can't understand that.

Maybe one day they will do a multiple research on nesting hens and pairs and give us more data to look at.

Secondly you don't rub poison Ivy on you to see if you break out, you test it on a small segment first. You allow a couple of states or a flyway to test a device like that to determine if it is harmful you don't just simply let it destroy the resource until people start screeming. Which is exactly what has happened.

Again thanks for the post --- You are the man.

[La. Legend]

I thought I explained that in all that verbal masturbation I did. Let me try er this way. Lets say we send 100 mallard hens back to the nesting habitat. What have we accomplished if the habitat can only sustain the success of 50 of them having a hatch? Research has shown us that those 50 will produce a bigger hatch than a hundred would if the habitat was only fair to poor. The 50 who try to nest in less than adequate conditions will probably end up being an easy meal for a predator and won't make another migration. We've really gained nothing by sending 100 hundred back other than to offer a buffet for teh predators. Hell an 11 year old could understand that. I found this interesting. Delta researchers watched a mallard hen re nest 3 times one Spring. She probably would have attempted it again but she fell victim to a predator due to the heat destroying the habitat she relied on for cover and protection. Dead hens don't lay eggs but neither will a live one if the habitat isn't there and in fact she may not survive herself because she's gonna attempt to hatch a brood even if it's in the wide open. Predators don't discriminate and would just as soon eat a drake, who is'nt trying to protect a nest, and will if the habitat isn't there. It's all about nesting conditions and very little to do with numbers. Hell we've know for years that if you send a 100 hens South and 50 of them make it back those 50 will be enough to insure we'll at least see another 100 fly South come Fall. If conditons are poor you'll see a decrease and that wouldn't change if you sent 75 back. Until we have more adequate nesting habitat than birds I'd rather shoot a hen and eat than see it fall victim to a predator. That just makes good sense or at least it does to me. Yes I was refering to teh studies Larry has made available to us. It was the most intense study ever done, and there's been a lot of them, and it makes sense. Not many hunters are selective about shooting hens of species other than mallards. Hell on a cloudy day it's hard to tell a gaddie drake from a hen until you have it in your hand. Inspite of this the population of certain species sky rocketed whe conditions were favorable. Many far exceeded the teh long term averages by heaps and bunches. How can one explain these huge population jumps if not shootin hens is indeed a factor? These increase were teh result of excellent nesting conditions and had nothing to do with teh shooting or not shooting hens. You can slice dice chop fry or shake and bake it but the not shooting hens to increase population theory just doesn't hold water. Hey you know me and if you feel not shooting hens help I'm all for that but I"m not buying but you didn't expect me to did you? Letting spinners spin came no way near destrying populations to unheathy levels and where I'm concered it was worth it to learn the truth about them. Those juvies would have gotten hammered anyway so teh only problem I have is that somebody using a spinner got em before we did. Ducks are renewable and one good nesting season will replenish them. Now duck repeat after me. It's all about habitat, habitat, and habitat. Repeat this 100 times then take 2 asprins and call me in the morning.

[sportsman450]

Hard, no-impossible to argue with that one Legend. I think Duckmen has just been so busy tryin ta justify osama-ben-maniacs existence that he's not thinkin too clearly these days. hehehehehehehehehehehehehe