Federal Government officially OWNS us now....

[umrebs]

Here's a couple of question UM Reb. Strait forward no BS..

1. How old are you? ( Age normally matters in Political Views=the reason I'm asking)

2. How much money have you paid into the Government? (Refer to Number 1)


I'm not trying to start anything. Just clear up a few things. The younger you are..NORMALLY..the more liberal. the older..NORMALLY...The more conservative. I am 37 years old. Young by some standards and old by others. I was raised around my grandad and we had a huge family. I was raised very conservative. My parents and grandparents didn't spend money unless is was nessassary. They work for everything they have and so Have I.

With this being said..I can't stand anyone that gets something for nothing, and that's exactly what most of the blacks, and some white are getting these days. There are some good black in this world..But let me pose a question...What is the ratio of good blacks to bad Black thugs..In Jackson. I would say 20% to 80%. now the white would have to be somewhere close to the 50-50 or 40-60 ratio.

So you can see my point. Blacks bring most of the racism on themselves for being ignorant and lazy. Mostly Lazy

I am 34 years old. I honestly don't know how much money I've paid into the government. "A bunch" is my best guess. I'm not even going to attempt to judge an entire race (white or black) to determine which are the "good blacks" or "good whites"... That isn't my call to make.

[Buckwabit]

I think Greenhead is right...You want to point out your views but you won't mention semantics or reason. The reason the Govenement is Broke is because there are more Bad Blacks and Bad Whites. The Good blacks and Good White's can't support the Bad one's anymore. There used to be more good people than bad. Now the numbers are reversed and the Good Can't support the Overwhelming Bad

With all that being said..People like you shouldn't vote becasue you don't have a clue why you think the way you think and the truth be known..you probably vote because your going along with someone else's beliefs..

[umrebs]

I think Greenhead is right...You want to point out your views but you won't mention semantics or reason. The reason the Govenement is Broke is because there are more Bad Blacks and Bad Whites. The Good blacks and Good White's can't support the Bad one's anymore. There used to be more good people than bad. Now the numbers are reversed and the Good Can't support the Overwhelming Bad

With all that being said..People like you shouldn't vote becasue you don't have a clue why you think the way you think and the truth be known..you probably vote because your going along with someone else's beliefs..

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I don't like making blanket statements nor do I think I can determine who is "good" or "bad". If the only requirement for being a "bad black" is not paying taxes then I'm sure you can find some census data that will answer your questions.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last statement. Why would I "vote to go along with someone else's beliefs"? That sort of defeats the whole purpose doesn't it?

[woody]

What is the ratio of good blacks to bad Black thugs..In Jackson. I would say 20% to 80%. now the white would have to be somewhere close to the 50-50 or 40-60 ratio.

So you can see my point. Blacks bring most of the racism on themselves for being ignorant and lazy. Mostly Lazy

And this is based on what?

[Buckwabit]

What is the ratio of good blacks to bad Black thugs..In Jackson. I would say 20% to 80%. now the white would have to be somewhere close to the 50-50 or 40-60 ratio.

So you can see my point. Blacks bring most of the racism on themselves for being ignorant and lazy. Mostly Lazy

And this is based on what?

Do you live in jackson?????

[woody]

yes. But how that matters answers my question, I guess.

[Buckwabit]

Well Woody..Here's another question for you

The federal and State governement are required to hire so many Minorities to majorities..Right? Well, two years ago Jackson's majority was Black. Same as today. Now that White's are a Minority, how are these agency's still hiring mostly Black Workers?

Second Question..Will the Middle Class White working Person(Per the Census..The highest paying in tax group) benifit from this Health Care agenda???

[farmerc83]

Do you believe in personal responsibility and if so, where do we need to draw the line between helping and enabling? Medicaid, unemployment and EBT card time restrictions/limits ok with you or should these "temporary" safety net programs be offered to individuals indefinitely, becoming their expected income?

Thank you. I do believe in personal responsibility. I went to school, got a job, pay my taxes etc. I'm not sure where the line is that separates helping and enabling. I guess I would rather err on the side of helping. I know that there are some out there who will abuse the system (any system) and that will always be the case. I am willing to accept that as long as it means that honest people who truly need the help get it.

The black/white direction that the thread has taken is pointless for this specific debate. If the welfare/entitlement programs were restricted then sorry whites and sorry blacks would have to be responsible for themselves.
You err on the side of help, under the current system I think it overwhelmingly errs on the side of enabling. The "DUH" moment that you have obviously failed to have in your 30 something trips around the sun is that honest people who truly need help would be able to get even more help or would be less likely to end up in a bad spot to begin with if we could stop the abuse of our welfare programs.

[umrebs]

Do you believe in personal responsibility and if so, where do we need to draw the line between helping and enabling? Medicaid, unemployment and EBT card time restrictions/limits ok with you or should these "temporary" safety net programs be offered to individuals indefinitely, becoming their expected income?

Thank you. I do believe in personal responsibility. I went to school, got a job, pay my taxes etc. I'm not sure where the line is that separates helping and enabling. I guess I would rather err on the side of helping. I know that there are some out there who will abuse the system (any system) and that will always be the case. I am willing to accept that as long as it means that honest people who truly need the help get it.

The black/white direction that the thread has taken is pointless for this specific debate. If the welfare/entitlement programs were restricted then sorry whites and sorry blacks would have to be responsible for themselves.
You err on the side of help, under the current system I think it overwhelmingly errs on the side of enabling. The "DUH" moment that you have obviously failed to have in your 30 something trips around the sun is that honest people who truly need help would be able to get even more help or would be less likely to end up in a bad spot to begin with if we could stop the abuse of our welfare programs.

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with you. I don't know if this new healthcare reform will be better or worse. I just know we needed something to change and now it has. Let's just wait and see what happens and if it is a terrible disaster then you can start a thread saying "i told you so"...

[bulldog ducker]

Thank you. I do believe in personal responsibility. I went to school, got a job, pay my taxes etc. I'm not sure where the line is that separates helping and enabling. I guess I would rather err on the side of helping. I know that there are some out there who will abuse the system (any system) and that will always be the case. I am willing to accept that as long as it means that honest people who truly need the help get it.[/quote]

The black/white direction that the thread has taken is pointless for this specific debate. If the welfare/entitlement programs were restricted then sorry whites and sorry blacks would have to be responsible for themselves.
You err on the side of help, under the current system I think it overwhelmingly errs on the side of enabling. The "DUH" moment that you have obviously failed to have in your 30 something trips around the sun is that honest people who truly need help would be able to get even more help or would be less likely to end up in a bad spot to begin with if we could stop the abuse of our welfare programs.[/quote]

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with you. I don't know if this new healthcare reform will be better or worse. I just know we needed something to change and now it has. Let's just wait and see what happens and if it is a terrible disaster then you can start a thread saying "i told you so"...[/quote]

Why just change for the sake of change? I think everyone needs to make up thier mind before Nov. if this is going to make it better or worse not just sit on the fence and take whatever comes out the pipe.

If you sat in my chair everyday you would see that expanding a system that is taken advantage of everyday is not a good thing.

[southdeltan]

You err on the side of help, under the current system I think it overwhelmingly errs on the side of enabling. .

Our current system is well past enabling. The vast majority of my students are on welfare and the vast majority of them thinks that is how it is for everybody. Only a small percentage understand the concept of paying taxes. They were overwhelmingly against Bush because he was cutting taxes. They thought a refund was a tax. It's ingrained in their culture after years on government aid.

The biggest questions I have is - exactly how many people are above the medicare poverty line threshold yet don't make enough money to afford health insurance. How many people who do not have medicare/medicaid or currently pay for their own insurance will this cover?

The 50% of Americans not paying taxes certainly makes it seem like all of these people are on welfare but they are not. Plenty of people work and pay in taxes but due to tax deductions they end up paying little if any net tax. This website here claims to be non-partisan (but has been claimed to be slightly left leaning) has some interesting information: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3505 .



I think the fact that some major corporations have lower effective federal taxes than other business (oil) and than many taxpayers is a problem. Reagan tried to do away with some of those tax loopholes but it never happened. If they're reporting record profits, is it fair that they also get tax breaks? One can make some argument for important industries that aren't doing as well. This isn't limited just to oil, either. Big corporations have great tax lawyers that allow them to find every deduction and loophole. Of course, I'm sure most here already agree that our tax code is bloated and unfair in many ways.



I'm curious to the constitutionality of the PPACA if it is a tax. It was my understanding tax bills must originate in the House. PPACA originated in the Senate. I need to some more research on this. I'm not sure if by not ruling it unconstitutional due to it's origination matters or not. (Perhaps, it does and there is ammunition to repeal it).


The biggest thing I'm sure of is Roberts definitely made a point about being careful who you elect. I think 4 of the justices are over 70. The next President will likely be appointing some new justices.

[southdeltan]

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with you. I don't know if this new healthcare reform will be better or worse. I just know we needed something to change and now it has. Let's just wait and see what happens and if it is a terrible disaster then you can start a thread saying "i told you so"...

Umrebs, the problem that many have is that by that point it may be too late. I've read that even if Romney is elected and the Republicans gain control of both the House and Senate it is unlikely all of the PPACA can be completely removed.

I'm not saying that all of it should be, either. (I think the blanked NO to preexisting conditions is a bad thing. I know of one person who was able to get insurance for his wife due to this. It is a higher rate than a "healthy" persons would have been, but at least it is something).

If Romney wins, it is likely the "tax"/"mandate"/"potentially-major-screwup" could be removed. If not, it is possible that the outcome could be very very very bad.

Either way, this is the first tax I know of that is required of people that does not deal with financial transactions (purchasing/selling) or owning land. That also is a major problem that many have, it potentially increases what we can be taxed for.

[umrebs]

I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with you. I don't know if this new healthcare reform will be better or worse. I just know we needed something to change and now it has. Let's just wait and see what happens and if it is a terrible disaster then you can start a thread saying "i told you so"...

Umrebs, the problem that many have is that by that point it may be too late. I've read that even if Romney is elected and the Republicans gain control of both the House and Senate it is unlikely all of the PPACA can be completely removed.

I'm not saying that all of it should be, either. (I think the blanked NO to preexisting conditions is a bad thing. I know of one person who was able to get insurance for his wife due to this. It is a higher rate than a "healthy" persons would have been, but at least it is something).

If Romney wins, it is likely the "tax"/"mandate"/"potentially-major-screwup" could be removed. If not, it is possible that the outcome could be very very very bad.

Either way, this is the first tax I know of that is required of people that does not deal with financial transactions (purchasing/selling) or owning land. That also is a major problem that many have, it potentially increases what we can be taxed for.

I agree that this change could have been handled better. Noone likes being told what they have to do with their own money, myself included. My original reason for posting on this thread was to encourage everyone to calm down a little. Romney passed pretty much the same law in MA in 2006 and it is working well there. I know that doesn't mean that it will work here, but it doesn't mean that it won't either. If you are positive that this is a terrible idea and nothing good can possibly come from it then I encourage you to vote for whomever you feel like will give us something better. I personally don't know if it will end in positive changes to the system or not, so I will reserve judgement until I feel like I have enough information to make that decision.

[Plainsman04]

I'm curious to the constitutionality of the PPACA if it is a tax. It was my understanding tax bills must originate in the House. PPACA originated in the Senate. I need to some more research on this. I'm not sure if by not ruling it unconstitutional due to it's origination matters or not. (Perhaps, it does and there is ammunition to repeal it).


The biggest thing I'm sure of is Roberts definitely made a point about being careful who you elect. I think 4 of the justices are over 70. The next President will likely be appointing some new justices.

I don't think the semantics of how it all happened really matters at this point. Clearly Congress & the judiciary have ignored the process that it takes to create a bill/law and base their decisions off of how they feel, not what should be the rule of law. Without the rule of law this whole country is falling apart. The process matters. It's what makes a free society work as much as the results of the process.

This next election is crucial, as is holding our representatives' feet to the fire to repeal this monstrosity. I agree we need health care reform but we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Actually, this whole debate should be more aptly named health INSURANCE reform. Everybody has access to health care. Some just choose not to pay for insurance, which is fine. We have to educate people on the real costs of health care. Making it "free" for people gives them an incentive to abuse the system. We don't need people in ER's with a stubbed toe. If you break your arm, go to the ER. If you have a cough, go to CVS and get some cold medicine. People need to be educated on the results of their actions.

My parent's business just got their health insurance renewals. Their single employees are now paying almost as much as family coverage cost 4 years ago. Their deductibles are higher and their out-of-pocket costs are higher. How is that a good deal for anybody? Elections have consequences.

umrebs - We can't just pass a bill and then see if we like it. The public needs to understand it fully before our representatives act on it. In my opinion, Congress passing a bill with little to no debate and then not telling the American public what is in it is tantamount to treason. In politics there is no "warranty" or "break-in" period. We can't afford a trial period on something like this. The bill is several thousand pages long. The American public should never accept such a monstrosity and then trust that our politicians hopefully got it right. Chief Justice Roberts got a least one thing right. We created this mess. Now granted the SCOTUS is supposed to be the backstop to preserve the constitution, but whatever.

[woody]

Well Woody..Here's another question for you

The federal and State governement are required to hire so many Minorities to majorities..Right? Well, two years ago Jackson's majority was Black. Same as today. Now that White's are a Minority, how are these agency's still hiring mostly Black Workers?

Second Question..Will the Middle Class White working Person(Per the Census..The highest paying in tax group) benifit from this Health Care agenda???

My original question concerned only your percentages. But, does race have to be an issue here? Would it be as equally upsetting to you if your data were reversed? Simply put, I do not believe that race should be an issue here. There are people of all races that take advantage of the system, get handouts, feel entitled, etc. and do nothing for it (I know you do not disagree with that). Whether the majority of those that take advantage of the system are of one race or another shouldn't matter because in the end you would still have to pay for their "laziness." Rather than point fingers at this race or that, why not just refer to the people that are taking advantage of the system as "freeloaders," "vagrants," or whatever, without the racial divides. To single out a race for good or bad reasons does nothing for your cause.