What to do about dogs that switch

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Labnerd01
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What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Labnerd01 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:23 pm

A question on teaching an old dog new tricks.
Over the years I have hunted with lots of folks and dogs, more often than not, I am compelled to tell a Hunter to take his dog to the truck because it is disruptive, be it barking, moving around, breaking just as the birds are cupped up etc. won't handle or take a line to a long retrieve etc. "It Happens".

Now, my hunting buddy has an 11 year old female that I have sworn at more than a few times. Whining in the blind drives me nuts, she whines frequently, breaking is another issue, and she can't do blind retrieves beyond around 50 yards. The one thing that really annoys me is that she switches. I really really hate it when I allow him to send his dog, have my dog honor his dog and then cast my dog for another bird only to have his dog drop the bird in its mouth and steal the bird away from my dog. Now I am really upset when its the only two birds knocked down that day.
Soooooooooo-aside from giving my hunting buddy some severe verbal abuse and running him off with the others I have already run off, am glad I did, does anybody have some helpful hints I could give him on how to teach her not to switch.

As an FYI, My dog is trained not to do this, I never had a problem with him from the beginning.
Now I know this may seem funny to some but really, there are reasons guide services don't want folks bringing their mallard muncher to the hunt and I for one know the reasons they do this.
Looking foward to some helpful ideas. :roll:

Oh, Hunting Etiquette 101 and or a little common sense courtesy, not something to teach the dog, any comments on that are helpful as well. I tend to hold it in and then explode.
Last edited by Labnerd01 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby cheeko » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:31 pm

Good luck on this one.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby ragon » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:56 pm

how good of friends are you? with the switching of birds ( if he was a good friend) i would wait till his dog was back to send mine, not all people have the same standards in what they want out of a duck dog, some just want one to hunt with, some want a DOG! as in finished, the noise in blind , take it and try to help him with it and if you do your friendship hunting relationship might be better, i know some dogs disrupt hunts and it is aggrevating but my friendship with somebody is not worth loosing over, ask him to hunt with just you two and help him with the animal, if he is any friend he will welcome the gesture, again this boils down to how good of friend you are and how you want too handle it, good luck
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Brock1 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:11 pm

All I can say is pretty much what ragon said "wait till his dog is back before sending yours." His dog is 11, and if she's retrieving for him still, let her go. I watched a dog not too long ago who was 10. His owner didn't care how he retrieved and what lines he took, as long as he brought em back. 11 year old is to the point of hanging it up, so I wouldn't stress out you or your buddy on her retrieving at this point. This may be his last year to hunt her so take heart in knowing it may mean a ton to him, you being the buddy you are, and not pushing the issue.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Labnerd01 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:18 pm

That is a very helpful post and you are right, she is nearing the end of her hunting life span if not entirely. No point in trying to make him do what is necessary to fix her because truth is the switching is not the only issue. Basically, she has been trained poorly all along, her force fetch was never done right and thats the begiining so you know the rest of it is, well half way done.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby levi127 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:52 pm

My advice is to relax and enjoy the hunt man. If you are that picky and whin about that much maybe you are better off hunting alone. Like one person said on another post, talking about a mans dog is a way to ruin a relationship quick.
Another thing, if you have that much problem with him and he is a friend why dont you help him with her? That would probably go a long ways.

Im new to all the training stuff and havent trained a dog in 10 years until recently. I have hunted with some that were awesome, a friends on here, and some that were just crazy. But never would I down a man on his dog period. I would try to help them more then anything. Mine is 8 months now and still learning things and I havent taken her with me yet this year bc we have had other dogs already going. But before I take her I will warm people of her nature and still learning. If they dont like it then they can just not go that day.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Labnerd01 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:11 pm

Thanks for the response guys, all were good. I do get pretty anal retentive about untrained or should say poorly trained retrievers or retrievers that disrupt or otherwise degrade the hunt.

My view stems from commercial hunting where folks are paying big money to hunt and taking their vacation time off and away from wife etc. Most have only a few days out of the year to get in a hunt and my sympathy lies with them more so than the guy who brings his mallard muncher to the hunt and who is not thinking about the rights of others. When its a weak hunt and the dog misbehaves and creates ill will with them the guy is going to usually not be invited to hunt with them again.

I my case I do value my friend and for the most part we hunt alone out of my boat so the dog only disrupts my day. As for helping him, I have provided him a venue to train with me anytime he wants. However, this summer he chose to train with me one day the entire off season from last May to October. I usually work my dogs at least three days a week to keep them fresh and conditioned.

This year I took on a puppy and began training him from the day I picked him up in May. He just turned 9 months old last week. I made the decision that he was not trained to a good enough level to hunt over with pleasure and put him with a friend who is a pro trainer for the entire hunting season. I will hunt my eight year old Finished dog and enjoy my days in the field with him. Lots of folks would not do that expecting others to put up with a pup. Seasoned dog trainers know that what I did was best for the long term benefit of the dog and me.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Mike Perry » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:44 pm

When I guide, I always have a MH or HRCH level dog of my own and there is never any issues with any type of "manners".
However, occasionally a client insists on bringing their own. Since they are paying the freight, there is nothing I can say. Once in a great while, they bring a competent dog. Usually it is quite the opposite. All I can do is be quiet and count the days till we switch over to a new group of hunters.
A lot of folks just don't know how good a good dog is and how bad their dog really is.
Occasionally, when we get a real bad disruptive dog, some of the members of the party will convince the owner to leave it at camp and let me take mine. This is usually on the last or next to last day and they are all tired of the yelling and cursing that goes with an unruly poorly trained dog.
As for your friend, just stick it out. At 11 years old, this will probably be the last season.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Smoke68 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:02 pm

Mike Perry wrote:Occasionally, when we get a real bad disruptive dog, some of the members of the party will convince the owner to leave it at camp and let me take mine. This is usually on the last or next to last day and they are all tired of the yelling and cursing that goes with an unruly poorly trained dog.
Just out of curiosity, how does the unruly dog owner usually react after watching your dog work?
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Mike Perry » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:33 pm

Smoke68 wrote:
Mike Perry wrote:Occasionally, when we get a real bad disruptive dog, some of the members of the party will convince the owner to leave it at camp and let me take mine. This is usually on the last or next to last day and they are all tired of the yelling and cursing that goes with an unruly poorly trained dog.
Just out of curiosity, how does the unruly dog owner usually react after watching your dog work?
I had this situation this year and the owner said that he knew he should spend more time training his dog, but just didn't. He was happy with his dog but the other guys were not. The dog would go out for a retrieve, get lost or not find the bird(s) and not want to come back. Really messed up one great pot hole hunt. We still ended up with a 48 bird limit, but the dog and handler messed up prime time.
I never gloat or brag, just pick up the ducks.
About 8 years ago, a friend got in a fight in a barley field over a bad dog and worse owner. It is a long story and lucky some one did not get hurt or shot. That was before I started guiding and the guide was a terrible outfitter.
Sometimes hunters ask me to train their dog for them after seeing one of my MH or HRCH, but for about 3 years now, I have not taken any outside dogs for training. I always tell them also that mine get to hunt and retrieve more in a season than most do in a lifetime. It is not unusual for my dogs to get 3,000 retrieves in a season up there in Canada. Nothing beats real live hunting experience.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby Labnerd01 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:41 am

I must say that I got a chuckle out of your posts. Seriously though, I have experienced all those problems and when the non dog owning clients are upset you have a responsibility to them to assure them a good hunt, at least that is my thought. If the dog owner has an unruly and untrained dog he is imposing on all the others that have paid good money for a hunt and thats the bottom line.

Two experiences I recall are: Goose Hunting in Manitoba and hiding under wheat swaths, a dog would not lie down and stay down and it barked as well. I told the hunter to take it to the truck. Another, HRCH titled dog, who's owner was an HRC judge, would not retrieve a goose standing over it and ragging it out all the while birds coming in. I had the Hooters mgmt group up there and one was really mad cause he wanted the goose to mount. What I did is I isolated the owner and his dog, took them out myself, left my dog in the kennel, a mistake because I learned then that dog would not only fail to pick the goose up, it did not know how to find other geese shot that fell in cover. Clueless on the Hunt em up command.

In Alberta-we were hunting a slough with high cattails and had a cripple that a dog pursued for half an hour, would not come back to its owner, never did catch the duck and finally we had to go get it, talk about disrupting the hunt. Basically took us out of the hunt for at least an hour. Think about the hunters that had flown from Atlanta to go on this hunt at $400.00 a day and to have the dog bust up the hunt at prime time.

I try my best to demonstrate to folks what a trained retriever does and have been successful doing it on hunts and via demonstrations. However, there are a large number of hunters who choose to take their 9 months out of the year couch potato to the hunt, rarely spend even a week training and working it off season and ruin the hunt for everybody else. That is where my sympathy ends and anger begins. How inconsiderate of the rights of others, how self centered can they be?

Yes, just because the dog is titled does not necessarily mean the dog is a quality dog for hunting. While I like the HRC program-the hunting experience is vital. Kinda like the difference in Basic Training and actual combat. Once that dog has the basics, it still needs the hunting experience to finish it off and continued maintenance training.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby mharville » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:16 am

I was gonna comment, but then i remembered my momma telling me. If ya can't say something nice. Don't say nothing
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby greencaps » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:27 am

mharville wrote:I was gonna comment, but then i remembered my momma telling me. If ya can't say something nice. Don't say nothing
+1
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby levi127 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:39 am

My gosh man. You trying to sell some guided hunts or dog training??
I think you said your rant so move on master trainer and whatever else you say you are please.
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Re: What to do about dogs that switch

Postby ragon » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:22 am

Oh Snapp! I understand the guideing part, unless the clients with the dog are the only ones with you, but the guide should have the right to carry his dog for backup, as for hunting with friends/buddies and there dogs , I have no problem with a dog that got problems , a breaking whiney meat dog of a buddie is the reason I have the dog I have today and I still invite him and his dog to hunt and lea ve meathead at home! Life has too much stress as it is to be stressed over the little inconveniences that show up in something you should love to do and that should be an outlet from everyday hustle, understand that one mans junk may be another mans treasure, I too strive to have the best dog I can, but I will not downgrade or insult anyones animal whether a friend or not! Good luck with it all ragon
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