Greater snow goose blue phase: update

[The Waterfowler]

I've got two Greater Blues in the freezer that were killed by a friend in Delaware. The bill doesn't look big enough to be one in your picture but would have to see it up close. Another thing you will notice is the length of their necks, more Canada like than Lesser Snow like. Males average 8 pounds. These things have massive mandibles. Comparing the bill lengths between the bottom Blue and the one in question, I can't see a big or obvious difference. I did kill a Greater Snow in Arkansas a couple of years ago and there are no fences in the sky. Some have therorized that the Blue Phase Greaters evolved from inbreeding with Lessers and by the F3 or F4 attain the size and measurements of a Greater. There are abnormalities in all species from runts to giants within the same family. JMO for what it's worth.

[Wingman]

Thanks Mr Pat. I will take some better pics and post them.

[Jeff]

Those greater snows are definetly big! We killed one when I was very young near Cameron, LA I guess about 25 years ago or so. They are really neat to watch, compared to regular SOB's.

[Wingman]

I measured the bills of both blues and there is only about 1/4 inch difference in length. Might be simply male vs female.

[Wingman]

Just got an email back from MDWFP Biologist, Houston Havens. You will see replies from Doc Kaminski at State and Canadian biologists Ray Alisauskas and Gilles Gauthier as well as Dave Ankney.

Alisauskas: That is definitely a greater, but it looks like a diamondback like you see on some lessers. I wonder how often Gilles Gauthier sees blue morphs of greaters?

Kaminski: Thanks Ray and Gilles. I never heard the term "diamondback". What is its meaning? Rick

Alisauskas: When it is flying with the wings spread, the incomplete blue plumage looks kind of like a diamond

Ankney: You may have first heard it from me, Ray, perhaps at LPB, but it was Graham who named it -- one of 6 Blue Goose morphs that he describes / illustrates in his Ph.D. thesis: As I recall, #1 is a pure Blue Goose, #2-4 show increasing amounts of white on the breast, belly, and neck, #5 is the Diamondback, and #6 is a pure Snow Goose.

Gauthier: Blue morphs are definitely present in greater snow geese. For the past 20 years, we have been banding a few of those on Bylot Island every year. Probably in he range of ~0.5% of the birds that we catch every year.

Kaminski: This thread of email from arctic goose specialists in Canada addresses your queries about the large, blue-marked snow goose harvested in Mississippi. Apparently, greater snow geese do experience gene flow with blue-phase lesser snow geese but only rarely. Thanks Dave, Gilles, and Ray. Rick

[arduckslayer]

Cool. Question is, did you put it in the freezer whole or clean it?

[Wingman]

Cool. Question is, did you put it in the freezer whole or clean it?

Hehe. I took it to the taxidermist to be mounted in a dead mount with a Canada, snow and Ross'. I'm waiting on the guys in the above thread to get back with me about bill/head measurements that distinguish a lesser from a greater.

[The Waterfowler]

Lessers measure from 50-62mm with a mean on males of 58.
Greaters measure from 57-73mm with a mean on males of 67.

Frank Todd says the bill on a Greater will be over 2 1/4 inches.

[Wingman]

Lessers measure from 50-62mm with a mean on males of 58.
Greaters measure from 57-73mm with a mean on males of 67.

Frank Todd says the bill on a Greater will be over 2 1/4 inches.

Thanks. I'm still not convinced that they can say it's a greater just from the pic. Seems like measurements would be needed but I'm not the goose pro.

[The Waterfowler]

i agree with you but hope it is. Can't believe they can say for sure. I've got to thaw the two out from Delaware and get some measurements and pictures.