23% national tax

[duramax]

sounds like the fair tax. Except the fair tax is a sales tax. It is the only tax that makes any sense. That way you can tax criminals, illegal aliens, or anyone else who's not on the level.

[MudHog]

That's exactly what it is, the Fair Tax.

straight 23% tax on any tangiable item sold or service that can be sales taxed.

[tunica]

What bothers Me is that I have never seen them really take any tax away. Kind of like going to the ladies house down the street and asking if the door admission covers everthing inside.

[the doctor]

my effective rate now is no where near 23%

the doc

[JDgator]

I have a problem with the majority of Americans paying 23% sales tax while multinational firms simultaneously enjoy the blessings of American liberty and cheap offshore labor while paying 2 or 3% tax. You can cover alot of deficit ground by closing some Clinton-era loopholes.

[Faithful Retrievers]

my effective rate now is no where near 23%

the doc

Mine either but I would hate for the man to check it. I think as mentioned there is way to much politics involved for something like this to ever take place. This country will remain give all the free crap to the lazy and rape the middle class working man.

[duramax]

my effective rate now is no where near 23%

the doc

As an individual, it's much higher. You have your fed income tax which may be a bit lower than 23%, then there is the fed employment tax on the companies. Both for the company you work for, and the companies you buy from. You dont see that money leave your paycheck, but it has a huge impact on your overall bottom dollar.
Therefore with the fairtax, goods won't cost you any more than you are already paying because producers costs go way down, thereby making their product cheaper to the consumer.
Another huge benifit of having no corporate, or employment taxes is that corporations would be more likely to come to the US to open operations, as well as eliminating a lot of outsourcing. It effectively would end the current recession.

[benjidp]

Ok, I'm from the government, so this topic directly affects me. Take my comments with a grain of salt. BUT!

I pay too. And if you've ever been overseas, you'd appreciate what we have here in the USA more and more. I look at my tax bill as "Country Club Dues". My passport is blue, has an eagle on it, and reads "The United States of America". Here, I don't have the police coming to my house simply because they want to and asking me for my papers. I don't have to report to the local police station when I travel to another town. And I have no fear of soldiers attacking me if I want to say how terrible the government is to its citizens. (All of which I have either seen or experienced while overseas.)

Now, seeing as how I AM a government worker, I think it'd be a good idea for me to get busy giving you your money's worth. Y'all have a nice day.

I think the point is that we can enjoy all of those things without footing the bill for all of these entitlement programs. I was in line the other day at a small Kroger and two women were in front of me, the put their buggy full of food and three bottles of Boone's Farm wine. One pulled out her magic yellow card and the other said, "Buy the food, I've got cash for the wine." The register guy said, "you can pay for all of it with the card." They did so. It just amazes me that you can get your fat booty up, walk to the car, drive to the store, push a buggy around the store, but you can't work? Give me a break! I understand current policies have made it tough to find jobs but one should be grateful enough that you're getting the groceries paid for without having to stick it the taxpayers for a bottle of wine.

My 2 cents....

[Hayes]

So, I hear you guys saying you want to base the national budget (military...everything) on what someone thinks someone else might spend in a given year. Lots of ambiguity in that, guys! Think about depending on a budget that comes out of an economy like the one we are in right now. Reckon there might be some shortfalls?

Can't say I'd like to stake the country's future on that! But, the tax code does need a complete redo based on a true "fair" and balanced mix of taxes so as not to beat up the true "working poor" and allowing the truly wealthy to escape taxes almost entirely.

crow

95% of the taxes are paid by 5% of the people (the wealthy)

Ask anyone making over $250,000 if they are escaping taxes. I say cut the wealthy class taxes and watch the economy and jobs take off. It just makes sense.

[torch]

95% of the taxes are paid by 5% of the people (the wealthy)

Ask anyone making over $250,000 if they are escaping taxes. I say cut the wealthy class taxes and watch the economy and jobs take off. It just makes sense.

X100000000000000000000000

[Hayes]

Ok, I'm from the government, so this topic directly affects me. Take my comments with a grain of salt. BUT!

I pay too. And if you've ever been overseas, you'd appreciate what we have here in the USA more and more. I look at my tax bill as "Country Club Dues". My passport is blue, has an eagle on it, and reads "The United States of America". Here, I don't have the police coming to my house simply because they want to and asking me for my papers. I don't have to report to the local police station when I travel to another town. And I have no fear of soldiers attacking me if I want to say how terrible the government is to its citizens. (All of which I have either seen or experienced while overseas.)

Now, seeing as how I AM a government worker, I think it'd be a good idea for me to get busy giving you your money's worth. Y'all have a nice day.

All that is well and good if the only place my tax money was going was for our protection and freedom, but the fact is the military budget is steadily getting cut and the other Government programs that I am fed up with, I have 4 people that work under me most do not make over 25,000 a year and they do not pay a total of 5000 a year in taxes, but at they get a refund check for 8000+ simply cause they are single and 4 kids. We have made it an incentive not to work and to have as many children as possible. Excuse me but I would rather go back to horse/mule dirt roads and trails then watch my money go to every shakema and myesha on the block and then have to sit there and watch them sit on the porch while I drive to work, NO FRIGGIN THANKS mr government! I am getting very little for what I am putting in, and what I do get out of my tax money (roads) I would just be fine with out. Instead I watch everyone else benefit from my tax money.

[farmerc83]

From the posted article

"According to the group's figures, at 1995 levels a new sales tax would have to raise $1.36 trillion to replace all Federal income taxes, payroll taxes and estate and gift taxes. Under its plan, the group says, taxable spending would be $4.6 trillion (after accounting for rebates to partly protect lower-income families).So, $1.36 trillion divided by $4.6 trillion would be the required sales tax rate. Fine, except that $1.36 trillion divided by $4.6 trillion is not 23 percent. It's about 30 percent."

Someone please tell me if my thinking is wrong on this, but I see this as a manipulation of the #'s as well.....or maybe just an omission of the obvious. If you are using 1995 numbers for taxes and spending, wouldn't it make sense that under the current system (what was in place in '95) that there would be less spending because of the current income tax system itself? What I mean is if a guy makes $1mil, under the current system he is going to pay high 30's% or about $380,000 right? Well under the 23% (or 30% by the articles #s), he could spend his whole $1mil and only be out $230-300,000 for taxes, therefore leaving $80-150,000 more for him to spend, with that getting taxed 30% as well. It doesn't totally cover the gap, but the margin isn't nearly what the article makes you think there is.

I am no economist and don't claim to be a numbers guy, but it doesn't make sense to me to base future spending #s under a new system off of past spending #s under an old system....esp when the new system is being proposed to give those that spend the most more to spend.

[Skip OK]

When I have heard about the Fair Tax previously it was to replace the current income tax system; not to cover Income tax, Social Security tax, estate tax or any excise taxes. If this is not true, then the "5% of the taxpayers pay 95% of the taxes" statement is obviously untrue, since Social Security taxes for every working American equal 14% of salary (you pay 7% and your employer pays 7%).

Replacing the Income Tax would require repealing the 16th Amendment, which probably would not happen.

A better solution, IMO, is to alter the Income tax rates so that we pay something (a small percentage) on every dollar of income. Maybe 1% on the first $10,000.00, 2% on the nest $10,000 and so on.

[farmerc83]

When I have heard about the Fair Tax previously it was to replace the current income tax system; not to cover Income tax, Social Security tax, estate tax or any excise taxes. If this is not true, then the "5% of the taxpayers pay 95% of the taxes" statement is obviously untrue, since Social Security taxes for every working American equal 14% of salary (you pay 7% and your employer pays 7%).

Explain your logic here. You said yourself that this wasn't just taking Social Security with its set percentage into account. Add in income and estate taxes and it makes perfect sense cause rich folks have larger incomes and estates to be taxed on, plus the incomes are taxed at higher percentages. Throw in gift taxes and the fact that at least 40% of folks don't pay taxes and the 5% pay 95% doesn't seem that far fetched.

[duramax]

[quote="Skip OK"]When I have heard about the Fair Tax previously it was to replace the current income tax system; not to cover Income tax, Social Security tax, estate tax or any excise taxes. If this is not true, then the "5% of the taxpayers pay 95% of the taxes" statement is obviously untrue, since Social Security taxes for every working American equal 14% of salary (you pay 7% and your employer pays 7%). [quote]

The Fair Tax would replace all of it, not just the income tax.