would you want a rule in hrc...

[GulfCoast]

Personially it think the entire "camo" debate is foolish>>> Other than doing it just so HRC can say we do this and AKC doesnt, its just a waste of time.....

.

Your totally 100% right. No one has answered my "why" question. Because, the "why" answer is simply this: "Its important to the old guard to be as different from AKC as possible." IMHO, this total camo dealio trickled down from the Grand. I was at the National meeting when Omar gave his "impassioned plea" (threw a fit) to "get back to the roots." The roots ain't the props, the roots are dogs with the skills to hunt. I have seen Omar run a test in blue jeans. Call a spade a spade. Let it die. Judge the dogs.

Love ya. Mean it.

[dukdawgn]

Personially it think the entire "camo" debate is foolish>>> Other than doing it just so HRC can say we do this and AKC doesnt, its just a waste of time.....

.

Your totally 100% right. No one has answered my "why" question. Because, the "why" answer is simply this: "Its important to the old guard to be as different from AKC as possible." IMHO, this total camo dealio trickled down from the Grand. I was at the National meeting when Omar gave his "impassioned plea" (threw a fit) to "get back to the roots." The roots ain't the props, the roots are dogs with the skills to hunt. I have seen Omar run a test in blue jeans. Call a spade a spade. Let it die. Judge the dogs.

Love ya. Mean it.

I answered you when I said the purpose is to aid in illustrating the direction of our program as a hunt test organization. Give a fat man credit, will ya.

[goosebruce]

mark i think the only part of this that has trickled down from the Grand, is indiviuals who can't keep them seperate, and the fact clearer rules save discussion and energy better spent testing dogs. The first is wrong, the second is right. The indiviual who tries to enforce head to toe camo is as bad as the handler wearing blue jeans... if everyone simply wore what the majoirty considered 'harmoious' clothing, there'd be no debate nor need for it. But since it comes up over and over, and 'indiviuals' on both sides of keep pushing and making it a bigger deal than it should have been, seems to me something needs to be done to simply do away with it.

Kenny Newcomb posted on hrc website about a rule proposal he's thinking of submitting, and it makes things clearer... of course then the issue of pink camo came up. You'll always have someone wanting to make an issue of things. We need to keep from giving them the focus.

It goes all around. At the last Grand, visors where made an issue in one flight... seriously? Theres already a rule about your hat stays on your head, so unless your dog is going to 7 foot in the air to see the top of your head, I can't imagine a dog even knowing you got a visor vrs a hat. So the sillyness continues on both sides, and in the end the hrc brand suffers. travis

[duckdawg27]

The problem at hand is that persons who would push the envelope
I see the problem at hand being the judges who assume they have authority that they do not have and push their own personal agenda.

I'm all for making it a rule. But go ahead and put some teeth into it. Define examples. Specific items, such as socks/boots, gloves, hats, etc. Don't just stipulate camo must be worn, b/c the next argument will be..........
I agree 100% that there will be an ongoing argument if the rule is not defined without loopholes.

he ignored the intent of the rule.
I'm not sure that some one wearing a comfortable pair of green shorts to the line actual goes as far as to insult the intent of HRC rules or not. I can't buy into that. No-one is trying to defile the reputation or purpose of the HRC with wardrobe.
Inaction that allows this issue to live on has done much more to damage the credibility of HRC than someone wearing Blue jeans to the line ever will.
Issues that take our focus away from training and testing superior hunting dogs does nothing to promote same

But as far as ignoring the intent...I have seen a judge stand up at the Sat Night Dinner and announce that no one would be allowed to run the next day(in HIS flight) that did not wear full camo. Is that the intent of the rule??
I have now been warned that my camo shorts did not match my camo shirt.
I have now been told that my camo was not the right color
I have now been told that i could not wear shorts at all.
I have now heard a judge tell the handlers about the camo requirement while the co-judge was wearing blue jeans
I've seen handlers sent back from the line for this ridiculous non-sense and I've heard judges threaten to fail handlers if they did not comply.....I'm just waiting to see that one.
Are you telling me that wearing Khaki Shorts is more of an offense than leaving a gun off safety?
The penalty for leaving the gun off safety is a warning.
The penalty for wearing non-camo is ??????? some would have me believe it is grounds for failure (or not being allowed to run) which is pretty close to the same thing.

The rule book says that a judges authority extends to "advice on suitable attire".

If it is in fact NOT grounds or failure, then I wish they would shut the hell up and leave me alone about it.
I have never agreed with any judge at any time making up their own rules...especially this one.

Good God lets settle this and give it a rest
www.Free the Khaki .org

[Jay Dufour]

Passes of the second Grand.....just sayin.....Hardly ever heard BS about costuming.....

[GulfCoast]

Passes of the second Grand.....just sayin.....Hardly ever heard BS about costuming.....

HELLO!

[Shannon M Calvert]

Any judge that tells you that you cannot wear camo crocs should not be judgeing. That is nothing more than a power play.

I agree but it is happening, and it is happening in the south and it is happening with very well respected judges. I have only once had anything said to me about my attire and I just pulled off my hat and ran my dog. We failed because I didn't get to wear my hat. We would have killed that test if I would have just been able to wear my hat.
The MAIN problem I have with all this is the new handlers coming in. Less than a month ago I was sitting out by my truck waiting on a friend of mine to run his seasoned dog. I struck up a conversation with a first time handler that didn't get to run STARTED due to his crocs. He quoted right from the rule book the exact rule and I agreed. He passed the test but I could tell he had a bad taste in his mouth about the situation. He was embarrassed for being sent back to his truck to get his boots. I talked with him for an hour or so and then we went to watch my buddy and his buddy run the seasoned test. His buddy was wearing a camo shirt, brown shorts and CROCS. He asked why his buddy got to do it and he didn't. I didn't have an answer. They both passed the morning series and I did not get to see them again so I am hoping they both passed the PM series so they will come back.
I have heard sooooo many times that everyone should attend a judges/handlers seminar and then they would know what to expect. I agree that everyone needs to attend a seminar but I totally disagree that you should have to go to a seminar to know the "real" rules. I can guarantee that less than 1% of the new handlers go to a seminar before they run their first test. Heck, I would nearly bet that same percentage didn't even know a seminar existed. They read the rules, come to the test and run their dog. Put it in the rules, make it black and white, and be done with it.

[Shannon M Calvert]

I have now been warned that my camo shorts did not match my camo shirt.
I have now been told that my camo was not the right color
I have now been told that i could not wear shorts at all.
I have now heard a judge tell the handlers about the camo requirement while the co-judge was wearing blue jeans
I've seen handlers sent back from the line for this ridiculous non-sense and I've heard judges threaten to fail handlers if they did not comply.....I'm just waiting to see that one.
Are you telling me that wearing Khaki Shorts is more of an offense than leaving a gun off safety?
The penalty for leaving the gun off safety is a warning.
The penalty for wearing non-camo is ??????? some would have me believe it is grounds for failure (or not being allowed to run) which is pretty close to the same thing.

The rule book says that a judges authority extends to "advice on suitable attire".

If it is in fact NOT grounds or failure, then I wish they would shut the hell up and leave me alone about it.
I have never agreed with any judge at any time making up their own rules...especially this one.

Good God lets settle this and give it a rest
http://www.Free the Khaki .org

[wilddog]

Funny part is whenever the rule book has it in there we will forget about this and go to walmart buy camo and some cold drinks and go run test and have fun without having to worry about what should i wear today hahahaha.

[Karen Klotthor]

Shannon, I hope you were able to convince the new guy that all judges are not like that. The only time I have come accross a judge tell someone they could not wear the straw hat they had on I could not believe it. It was hot a hell and the guy wearing the straw hat was older and did not need to be taking his hat off and his hair was much brighter since it was all white. They would have allowed him to run without any hat but not that one. As for as that judge, you no longer see him out there at all. Maybe the seminar needs to start covering this issue with the judges. I have been wearing my camo cros all year since it is hot and have never been told anything.

[SME]

I kept wondering why people asked us this weekend if they could wear Crocs to the line in Started at West MS. Now I know. Heck, I was wearing my CAMO Croc flip-flops, so I certainly wasn't going to say anything about Crocs to the line. We even had one guy barefoot at the line for the water marks when the bank was finally good and muddy.

How can footwear matter??? Are the dogs looking at their handler's feet for guidance?

SME

[Doc & Nash]

How can footwear matter??? Are the dogs looking at their handler's feet for guidance?

SME

???Personal ego trip..... Or maybe its a precursor to being asked to judge the Grand?? "Wanna judge the Grand... You gotta fail somepeople or not wearing head to toe camo"... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... That and you gotta wear TWO pencils in your hat...

[Jeff]

I will get into this mildly....

I think blue jeans, kahkki earth tones are all fine. If I'm asked to wear what I do hunting, it's normally blue jeans and some form of shirt sometimes it has camo on it most of the time it doesn't. This is all nuts, this should be about the dogs, NOT the handlers unless the handler affects the dogs work. Last I checked my dogs were happy as a pig in slop when they got to pick up a retrieve never once have they said nope I'm not picking that up cause your clothes don't match.

Lastly, with some of the clothing comments. Convince me that a judge that tells a first time handler about their shoes not being correct will tell the same thing to a pro with 8 dogs on the grounds or a handler they know by name or another judge. I think while it will happen some, for the most part the "regular" handler will get home cooking on the subject. I know when I run, I don't wear full camo 90% of the time and while I will fail for it I handle and if my dog blatently can't see my casts I still take my hat off. I think that is another crock of crap rule. Help the dogs don't penalize them because of clothing or using clothing.

[Marty N.]

I don't get the opportunity to run very much HRC but when I do I enjoy it and the folks there. I have to pass on an observation made at an event earlier this year by a client that was handling his started dog. " You mean I have to put camo face paint on and can't were dark brown pants to run my dog? ( he put camo rain pants in 95 degree weather to run)

" My reply was that is something the judge is requesting that all handlers do." His statement in reply was simply " Is this organization run by the Camo Nazis or by folks testing hunting dogs." This was said tongue in cheek and he let his little girl paint her Dads face before he ran and he had a good time. I just thought the term "Camo Nazi's" was worth passing on.

Camo Nazi regards
Marty

[Sue]

I guess I Pass the test this past weekend but failed the fashion part! Not only did my camo not match but I had on Ostrich socks! I think that they should become my good luck socks since the girls managed to pass the test in spite of my attire and handler errors.
Also I would like to thank West MS for all of their hard work this past weekend. Thanks Mark , Kevin and everyone that worked our Master test on Saturday.