What is REALLY a controlled break...HRC test...

[Mike Perry]

Note to self: "Mike has already admitted that he has high powered FT bred dogs running HT's that tap their toes as mentioned in a post on MSDUCKS" "He shall be guilty of a CB by way of admission" "I will assume that even if his dogs do not have a controlled break while under judgement by myself & Jason there will be one somewhere down the line and we must nip this in the bud"

...but if he doesn't say sit..................


just sayin'........

I have trained all my younger dogs in Swahili. Clicks and whistles only instead of words. They don't have a clue what "SIT" means.
Ought to keep the judges guessing.
MP

[goosebruce]

Kenneth, you can say sit all you want.. unless he is moving forward... if hes moving and you choose to say something, you are stopping a break i.e. a controlled break which is failure. its not the talking, its the moving and talking. The handler gets involved... i.e. simple nothing grey about it. The whole issue is, we dont need simple during the weekends, we need grey, and everyone wif the same color chart! travis (who cant wait to run charles, david, and jasons seasoned tests!).

[Mike Perry]

Kenneth, you can say sit all you want.. unless he is moving forward... if hes moving and you choose to say something, you are stopping a break i.e. a controlled break which is failure. its not the talking, its the moving and talking. The handler gets involved... i.e. simple nothing grey about it. The whole issue is, we dont need simple during the weekends, we need grey, and everyone wif the same color chart! travis (who cant wait to run charles, david, and jasons seasoned tests!).

Travis, if we are both running under Charles and Jason, we ought to be able to keep the internet burning for at least a week.
Throw em under the bus regards
MP

[duckdawg27]

Kenneth, you can say sit all you want.. unless he is moving forward of the retrieving line... if hes moving forward of the line and you choose to say something, you are stopping a break i.e. a controlled break which is failure.

Travis, I could agree with you if it read that way......
Keep in mind I'm not arguing just trying make a point.
Why would I be saying "SIT" in the first place if my dog weren't moving.

Exact definition from the seminar manual no interpretation needed.
Controlled Break
The dog leaves the retrieving line before being released. It is "Breaking", and is not going to stop on its own accord, but stops and returns to heel on the handlers command.

We need to leave it that way, aint broke and don't need fixin...that is much more "correct" than the new definition out of the national meeting. imo (I can't really say what was said...I was not there).

Actually I think Cat Squirrel had the closest definition of CB "the way I think and run it and judge it".

I just can't see myself trying to explain to a handler why I just put his dog out for a controlled break when it never left the retrieving line and ....even if he accepted it, I just don't think I could.

I pretty much don't pay much attention to what happens at the Grand until starts to trickle down to the Finished test.
The Grand rules COULD READ

1 the judges make up all the rules on the day of the test
2 the end.

and I would not care.......except...............it keeps filtering back to the finished test.
I'm sorry but that "unwritten rule" is as bad as the....."NO" = intimidation "unwritten rule".
Judging with a conscience
Regards

[Mike Perry]

Great post Ken.

Said it before and will again, whenm i hear judges say "we ned to get these dogs ready for the Grand" I expect it to be a tough weekend.

Training in Swahili regards,
MP

[mharville]

Great post Ken.

Said it before and will again, whenm i hear judges say "we ned to get these dogs ready for the Grand" I expect it to be a tough weekend.

Training in Swahili regards,
MP

I may be putting my foot in my mouth and pissing somebody off, but it's not a judges place to get a dog ready for the grand. Their undertaking is to test the requirement as mandated in the finished portion of the rules and judges book. That is it! Training, training groups, trainers, friends with experience, that's what gets a dog ready for the grand. That guy running his first finished test 2 weeks before the grand or the guys with 500+ point dogs signed up for a finished test, (hopefully) knowing the rules for and expectations of a finished retriever, that's what they came to test. Not a training day for dogs running the grand. How bout this, under that instance anyone not running the grand may be allowed to run all marks as singles and use training aids. It's the same thing, weekend hunt test are testing a dog's ability and training, not to get ready for another level. How a/b a seasoned judge adds an extra mark to to the land or water. I mean after all, we gotta get these dogs ready for finished. It makes the same amount of sense. Judge the level u're supposed to judge.

Sorry for the rant.And a big thanks goes out to all the judges that do give up there time and judge and set up test as per the HRC rulebook!!!!

[goosebruce]

mitchell Im just waiting for the day your ready for me to write that letter on you... Your hart is in the right place, more than knowledgeable enough, and know the rules and will defend them. You know the number when your ready! travis

[chance]

Mitchell, you need to gather up your dad, PJ and Skinny James and make a trip to the Bass Pro Shop in Jackson Saturday. Seminar begins at 9:00.

[Henna Sag]

Chance I would like to attend but got some plans for the weekend but be and Mitchell went to the seminar at the national meeting. I have already took my judges test.

[jksboxofchocolates]

Exact definition from the seminar manual no interpretation needed.
Controlled Break
The dog leaves the retrieving line before being released. It is "Breaking", and is not going to stop on its own accord, but stops and returns to heel on the handlers command.


Judging with a conscience
Regards

This has been such a good discussion. Since it first began and I posted my original description I have been thinking about how I actually judge a control break........For me to note a CB on my sheet the dog has to have left the retrieving line and the handler has to have stopped him. I just wanted to state that here.

Thanks.

Janet

[CF]

good one Janet...simple enough...

and yes it has been interesting to see all of the replies...I had thought about this before the subject came up at the nat meeting then when it came up there as part of the seminar it got me to thinkin' a little more......which for me in cases ain't good...


...on the surface it would seem very black and white the difference between a cb and a break...creep or no creep...pass or fail...

...then there is the grey...


...so...I'll just do my best to keep my mouth shut on the line to remove some of the doubt that a judge may have...then with a little luck and a buncha steadiness we will leave nothing to be judged.....

...maybe CAMO duck tape over the mouth will be new new proper attire !!!




side note: mharville needs to start thinking about judging at some point...

[Copiah Creek]

Okay a controlled break is when your at the line and your stomach says ,everybody out ALL exits ! And you make it to the potty Cause if'n you dont make it to the potty ! It's just a STINKIN break

[jksboxofchocolates]

You made me laugh with that one. Thanks. Not having the best of days.

Janet

[mharville]

good one Janet...simple enough...

and yes it has been interesting to see all of the replies...I had thought about this before the subject came up at the nat meeting then when it came up there as part of the seminar it got me to thinkin' a little more......which for me in cases ain't good...


...on the surface it would seem very black and white the difference between a cb and a break...creep or no creep...pass or fail...

...then there is the grey...


...so...I'll just do my best to keep my mouth shut on the line to remove some of the doubt that a judge may have...then with a little luck and a buncha steadiness we will leave nothing to be judged.....

...maybe CAMO duck tape over the mouth will be new new proper attire !!!




side note: mharville needs to start thinking about judging at some point...

i"ll do my first assignment on the same weekend as you..haha