Teacher Pay Question

[sadie1]

I just read 5 pages on the topic of the educational woes of our state on another topic thread and thought it was interesting reading peoples opinions on the ways we should fix the problems. Teacher pay was mentioned several times as being low. The "regional average" is really a relative term and hard to compare. I wish I could use the term "regional average" when I give landscape quotes to potential customers.
Am I not correct in thinking that Mississippi teachers starting out of college, mind you, with one of the easier degrees( I have one ), at somewhere in the vicinity of $30,000.00 as an estimate. It may be higher, I am just taking a stab. They work 180 days a year, with maybe a few days additional for preparation. Most jobs in the state work 240 days a year. So if you compare apples to apples, teachers really make the equivalent of $45,000 a year based on time in the office with a pretty good insurance plan, along with pretty decent retirement. How many other jobs in the state make that much for an undergrad degree? Or rather, how many jobs pay that much with that much time off? I am not advocating lower pay for teachers, because I am a teacher as well, so is my wife ( ok...speech path. at a elementary school), and both of my parents. But in reality, the pay isn't that bad. I would hate to be in the governor's shoes trying to make these tough decisions. Its hard to blame him. He is trying to run the whole state, not just education.

[davidees]

I make more than teachers do and I have no degree. Do you think soldiers pay should be cut? Police officers? Firemen? Theyre all equally important to our society.

[davidees]

In my opinion, of course.

[Seymore]

It is a political hot button issue and reality has nothing to do with it. Any politician who makes the suggestion that education be cut will be portrayed as an evil demon spawned of the devil himself. That politician will be lambasted as hating little kids, hating teachers, and generally being evil.

The reality is the state is broke. Tax receipts are below what was estimated when the budget was made resulting in a short fall. The estimates are off because the economy tanked and people didn't make the income to pay the income taxes. Housing dried up and so did property tax. Then people quit shopping which killed the sales tax.

Please note that I have not come out in favor of cutting education. That said I don't know where the money is going to come from to cover the shortfall. There's just so much that can be cut without getting personnel expense. As has been mentioned earlier the largest expense of any organization is payroll.

[sadie1]

I make more than teachers do and I have no degree. Do you think soldiers pay should be cut? Police officers? Firemen? Theyre all equally important to our society.

Your original post was saying that teacher pay should not be cut. While I agree that it is a terrible thing, it possibly is the only option. In this post you say that soldiers, police officers, and firemen should not be cut b/c they are all important. Again, I agree, but the necessity of the matter is not something anybody wants. My original point was just to say that teachers really don't make that bad. You are probably right that lots of money was and is mismanaged, but most of the problem is due to revenue of tax flow. Like Seymore said, when you start talking pay cuts to people working for the state its a real hot button, but the reality is that the state can't spend money if its not there. Haley Barbour just is the lucky man that gets to make a very unpopular decision. We elected a conservative and he is making a conservative decision. While I hate it has come to this, I think he is trying to make the best decision for our state.

[SoftCall]

cut teacher pay and watch what happens to the quality of education in the state of Mississippi. My wife taught in MS for 10 years. She teaches in Texas now and makes DOUBLE what she made in MS. Keep in mind that MS pay stats are skewed by administrative salaries. We are now in the process of possibly relocating to Colorado and there is parity in salaries between TX and CO. Look at the edu stats from state to state. There is something to be said for competitive pay for our educators.

[Seymore]

I make more than teachers do and I have no degree. Do you think soldiers pay should be cut? Police officers? Firemen? Theyre all equally important to our society.

Your point is not relevant. The issue with the teacher pay is that the state does not have the money. Soldiers are paid by the federal budget while police and fire personnel are paid from municipal budgets. The reality is there is no money and the state doesn't have the ability to print and borrow like the Feds.

No one, least of all me, disputes the importance of civil servants. I hate for education or any service to be cut for that matter. Education probably more so because I think it pays dividends in the future with increased pay which increases tax revenue which keeps us out of this problem to begin with. However, when the money isn't there something has to give.

We only need to look back 10-15 years to see this problem coming. If money from the tobacco settlement would have been well spent we could have funded education well into the future. I've seen incredible waste from programs that were started from those funds.

[Steam]

Sadie, you could not be more right. Teachers really have got it pretty good. My wife is a teacher, and not to mention working much less than most people, it is the perfect job to have a family with. Teachers have every holiday that their children do, get off at 3:30. Not to mention that they also have an hour for "planning" which we all know they use for other things besides planning (my wife does not even have to stay at school during this period). I know this is a "hot button" but I commend you for having the ba!!s to tell the truth.

[Wingman]

I don't know about other teachers but my wife works her butt off as a first grade teacher. She is at that school from 7 am to 4 or 5 most days. Deals with idiot parents and little kids who have no respect. She got her national board and now they're cutting some of that. She just graduated delta state today with a masters and is teaching in a school district in the delta that is run like a circus.

By the way, where's all that casino revenue we were supposed to be saving from these miracle cure casinos?

[Seymore]

By the way, where's all that casino revenue we were supposed to be saving from these miracle cure casinos?

And there is the red herring in all of this. Casinos were brought to Mississippi on the pretext that it was going to fund education which made it more palatable to the bible thumping God fearing people of the this fine State. Now that tax revenues are down, where is the tax revenue from the Casinos. I guarantee you the Casinos have not had a drop in business. I've only been in one Casino in my life and don't hold it against anyone who goes. But let's call it what it is. Prior to having across the board pay cuts I would want some explanation from elected officials as to where that revenue went but don't expect an answer.

How many remember when William Winter got mandatory kindergarten passed and the sales tax went from 5 % to 6 % to fund it. Then when it came time for it to start they were short because they had spent that 1 % other places.

I think any politician should have to go pass a class taught in the style of Dave Ramsey.

[Wingman]

By the way, where's all that casino revenue we were supposed to be saving from these miracle cure casinos?

And there is the red herring in all of this. Casinos were brought to Mississippi on the pretext that it was going to fund education which made it more palatable to the bible thumping God fearing people of the this fine State. Now that tax revenues are down, where is the tax revenue from the Casinos. I guarantee you the Casinos have not had a drop in business. I've only been in one Casino in my life and don't hold it against anyone who goes. But let's call it what it is. Prior to having across the board pay cuts I would want some explanation from elected officials as to where that revenue went but don't expect an answer.

How many remember when William Winter got mandatory kindergarten passed and the sales tax went from 5 % to 6 % to fund it. Then when it came time for it to start they were short because they had spent that 1 % other places.

I think any politician should have to go pass a class taught in the style of Dave Ramsey.

It doesn't take a smart fella to figure partnering with crime only benefits the crooks. I'll bet the mob laughs every time they make a deposit at the bank.

[davidees]

I was going to bring up the casino revenue, but decided to leave it alone. But, being a casino Surveillance Agent, I can tell you for a fact that casino revenues are way down. Casinos also provide thousands of jobs to this state. That said, I thought they were supposed to help education too.

[Steam]

The budget gets cut every year. In an effort by the teachers to continue to help the students, they require the parents to supply every day essentials ( such as toilet paper, tissue, paper towels, etc.). Each year the govt. sees that the schools survive, and continue to cut the budget only for the parents to supply more. Now, it is to the point that parents have had enough and are pushing back rather that forking out more money that their taxes are supposed to pay for anyway. About the casinos, try visiting a school system in the same county as a casino like Harrison and Hancock. The money is being given, just not statewide.

[Wingman]

The budget gets cut every year. In an effort by the teachers to continue to help the students, they require the parents to supply every day essentials ( such as toilet paper, tissue, paper towels, etc.). Each year the govt. sees that the schools survive, and continue to cut the budget only for the parents to supply more. Now, it is to the point that parents have had enough and are pushing back rather that forking out more money that their taxes are supposed to pay for anyway. About the casinos, try visiting a school system in the same county as a casino like Harrison and Hancock. The money is being given, just not statewide.

Parents ain't paying jack for public school in the Delta, I can assure you. My wife spends more of her money on classroom supplies than the parents do.

And I agree about the casino counties (or most of them) being nicer than the rest. I can tell you in the dark with my lights off where the Tunica/Quitman line is.

I won't get into the casino thing cause it just don't make much sense to argue it now.

[cwink]

I don't know about other teachers but my wife works her butt off as a first grade teacher. She is at that school from 7 am to 4 or 5 most days. Deals with idiot parents and little kids who have no respect. She got her national board and now they're cutting some of that. She just graduated delta state today with a masters and is teaching in a school district in the delta that is run like a circus.

By the way, where's all that casino revenue we were supposed to be saving from these miracle cure casinos?

+1,0000.. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher.. She leaves the house at 6:40 (has to be at work before 7) and does not get home before 4. Here starting salary when in 2003 was 22k.. It is better now, but only because she got her masters.. I would say that avg pay for a teacher w/o a Masters is about 32k.. Yes, they have got good hours and it is a great job for those with families.. But I venture to say it is probably one of the most stessful jobs with all the red tape and things you have to put up with..