Starting Formal Obedience

[M.R.Ducks]

I am getting ready to start working on formalizing ob with my pup. He is 4.5 months know and was planning on starting up later this week or next. Had a question about formalizing HERE. I train most of the time by myself so I have had some problems figuring out how to work on HERE and just here. My pup sits well considering I haven't pressured him to this point. Being new to this whole training bit I have read a lot saying you only want to train for one command at a time. So that said should I formalize SIT before I do HERE? Otherwise, how do I teach/formalize 'here' by myself?

[EvanG]

What method are you following?

EvanG

[M.R.Ducks]

What method are you following?

I have actually been following your training program but kinda hit a wall at the point where you CC to here. I have been trying to figure out a way to follow the method that you used with CC to here with two people, with a single person. I have two long leads but I fear running a lead close to him is going to cause unneeded distraction.

[BucksandDucks]

Doin this now with my puppy and let me tell ya it is a whole lot easier if'n you can find someone else to run the other rope and transmitter and let you focus on getting the dog to ya.

If you don't have anybody to help you I would try front sitting the dog about 10 yards from you and then yanking the lead and say "here" while hitting the transmitter button.

But I would try to find someone to help you if possible.

Just my .02 worth.

[MRC Dream]

the two rope deal isn't necessary in teaching here. If you get sit down, then here with a check cord is rather simple. Sit the dog in front of you, and slowly back off and increase the distance as warranted. Then you can CC to here.

[cheeko]

the two rope deal isn't necessary in teaching here. If you get sit down, then here with a check cord is rather simple. Sit the dog in front of you, and slowly back off and increase the distance as warranted. Then you can CC to here.

I agree with MRC Dream . THis is the method i use.

[M.R.Ducks]

If you get sit down, then here with a check cord is rather simple. Sit the dog in front of you, and slowly back off and increase the distance as warranted. Then you can CC to here.

This may be a dumb question but I am going to ask anyway....From what you said I take that as, you should formalize/teach sit first and then move to here. Is there anything wrong with cc'ing during at sit rather than here? Assuming that at each phase you start off without collar pressure teach the command then cc to command...correct approach?

[Glenn]

I think your pup is too young to collar condition!

[Jeff]

Formal OB is NOT CC!!

The move to formal OB means there are no longer excuses for not doing something the dog is told. For example Sit means sit, if no sit it's reinforced with a heeling stick or check cord. Here means here if he doesn't come, then you reel him in with the cord.

I would get sit down rock solid. I would use a heeling stick to help get me there. A heeling stick in my opinion is a better way to introduce force rather than the collar. Once you have sit down put the check cord around a tree in a J where the dog is on the short end, tree in the turn, you at the long end. Walk away from him, if he tries to come to you you can stop him with the check cord. Once you get this down sit is finished. Then move to here, heel, etc.

Once you get this down then you can consider going to CC. I normally do CC AFTER FF which would be around 6-7 months. I think most of this is in Evan's books, but I haven't read it in a long time.

[M.R.Ducks]

Formal OB is NOT CC!!

A heeling stick in my opinion is a better way to introduce force rather than the collar.

My plan was begin formal ob using a pinch collar and healing stick, make sure the desired command is solid before introducing the collar. That was the reason that I asked if it was ok to work a command (ie. sit), get it solid, and then CC to that command. Once a command is CC'ed move to another move to the next command starting over with pinch collar and healing stick. Or is it better to progress through all commands until they are solid and then CC to commands?

CC AFTER FF which would be around 6-7 months. I think most of this is in Evan's books

I saw where Evan posted that he CC's to here at around 4-5 months depending on the pup.

[cdwyer]

You ought to get a copy of the Bill Hillman video. I have done my last two puppies with his stuff and is absolutely the best method i've been exposded to. Sit is the first and only command he wants a dog to hear for quite a while, no here till the end of the program. Its all about developing and conditioning good habits. Dennis Voight in his new video mentions his program and the effectivness of it. My last two girls just turned 1 and when you say sit, its a done deal. Cant wait to start bigger and better things with these two. I have a feeling my line issues are going to be non-issues.

[DeltaCotton12]

Don’t get in a big hurry. The pup may seem ready and willing but I felt my dog didn’t really start clicking until 6-7 months. I tried to formalize early but I ended up just getting discouraged. Every person I spoke with told me to SLOW DOWN and I didn’t listen. But my dog’s behavior taught me to slow down. At 4.5 months, the dog is still a puppy. He is still exploring. Fun bumpers and socializing. Once the dog starts to lose teeth bumpers and then eased into hold around 6 months.

Your pup could be different but that is my experience with training a youngster. She is my first but boy have I learned a lot..

[MRC Dream]

many folks will CC to here at 4.5 to 5 mo.'s old. It's not the whole CC process. Makes it much easier to control a wild one, especially when it comes to bringing back the chickens. Some dogs aren't mature enough at that age, but many are. So, it depends.

(note: for the record, Graham has recommended some dogs be cc'd to there at that age, but it's not in his books.)

[CF]

two ropes...one person...sounds like a bad movie but I digress...

...assuming the dog has been taught these commands before conditioning starts AND that he is ready to begin formal ob...

...first rope is for you to pull the dog to you as the collar is used and you give the "here" command...as you do this AND the dog begins catching on he will naturally desire to be by you...you have to have a way to keep the dog in place......enter the second rope which is wrapped around a basketball goal post, mailbox or ball on a trailer hitch or whatever...the reason the second rope is used is to keep the dog in place without having to use a "sit" command...this keeps from clouding the training/conditioning with other commands besides "here".....keep the first rope in place only if the dog needs to be reminded of what he is supposed to do...

I have done it this way before but it is definately a whole lot easier if you have a second person as mentioned...after you feel the dog is clicking you can remove the ropes and continue collar conditioning as long as the results are good......if you hit a snag go back to the ropes...simplify.

DON'T FORGET TO PRAISE THE DOG FOR COMPLIANCE...



...of course this is only a brief "high level" description and may take several sessions over several days to get things going to the point of the dog needing the restraint of the second rope...


...also I assume no responsibilty of any damage done to goal posts, mailboxes and or trailer hitches if you own a rocco type dog....



...maybe Evan has one of those diagrams he can post to show this 'cause a picture can be worth more than a 1000 words sometimes...

[M.R.Ducks]

Just wanted to put this out there...

I don't want everyone to think I am jumping to get my pup strapped to an e-collar and begin cc. My pup has been doing very well with treat training commands, sits before entering or existing the house, sits at heal while I am getting his food (granted heal also gets confused with lean on my leg). I have also been working on "treat overs" to the point that he will take a cast left,right, or back with two pieces of food in different directions (not enough for all 3). Anyways of late he has started being a little testy outside of treat training with the here command. So much so that I have limited using it when he is off lead playing and substituted with hup hup or hey hey and a few claps until I have formalized here. His other command are consistent yet not prompt but I don't expect them to be at this point.

So I was asking the question to get some ideas about formalizing (or beginning to formalize) the here command. And then progressing to CC to here at a later point (2 wks or so) in time.