Breed or Not to Breed

[RoosterHunter]

Considering letting a Dog Name Madison be a MOM. Problem is that her EIC Test came back as a Carrier. CNM is Clear. OFA Hip Joint Conformation evaluated as : Excellent Elbow: Normal. Eye Evaluation Pending.

She will be 31 Months Old on December 15th.

Hunt Test History:
UKC
Started Title @ 11 months
Hunting Retriever @ 16 months
Hunting Retriever Champion @ 23 months

AKC
Junior Title @ 12 months
Senior Title @ 23 months
Master Title @ 30 months

Breed on Not to Breed is the Question. If I do decide to breed her it would be only to an EIC Clear Sire. May run some Field Trials with the Dog and see how that fairs before a decision is made.

What do u think?

[teul2]

her EIC Test came back as a Carrier.

Nope

[waterbug]

I do not have a problem with a carrier to a clear breeding myself. None of the pups will be affected, but some will be carriers of EIC.

[brandonvet]

but some will be carriers of EIC.

there lies the problem with that breeding. Not saying it's wrong or right, cuz it's your dog, but I probly wouldn't. If I did, I would make d@mn sure everybody that got a pup knew what they had (possible carrier) and wasn't going to be recklessly breeding, or have a limited registration on pups.

[waterbug]

If my dog was a carrier I would post all the health clearances. More importantly I would have all the pups tested for EIC. That way the folks who wanted a Clear pup from the litter will get a clear pup, and the others will be told that the pup is a carrier and what that means. Most folks who are going to buy a dog from a nice breeding now know about EIC. In my opinion, the way to get rid of EIC is not by only breeding clear dogs. If you only breed clear to clear, then a lot of great dog lines will be eliminated from the gene pool. I just don't think that is the way to go.

[flyntwt]

pick a clear sire and then pick your pup!

[GulfCoast]

Pick a clear sire, disclose everything, and have some nice puppies!

[Damn_It_Boy]

Wow, funny you should post that. Of all the dog's I would want to breed Rocco to, she would be one of them. But, can't do that now with an Affected/Carrier..........Damn..........

Carrier/clear breeding will produce ABOUT 50% clear and 50% carriers..........

I say keep doing what you are doing, and if you have enough interest to sell the carriers, breed on brother. She is a very fine dog, sweet as can be, and I know would throw some great pups.

NOTHING IS WRONG WITH A CARRIER DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!! They just carry the gene. Careful breeding and education will keep us from having AFFECTED Dogs....that is, should be, the concern.

YOU WILL NOT END UP WITH ANY AFFECTED PUPS AS LONG AS YOU BREED TO AN EIC CLEAR STUD. Go for it man.........ain't many clear/clear breedings out there anyway.

[rebmd]

for every pup born, there is a 50% chance that he or she will be a carrier. these odds apply to each puppy. in theory you could have all clear pups, or all clear pups. you'll likely have somewhere in between.

my take on it is that you should breed affected dogs. if we become too selective in our breeding, the lines are going to be aweful close and there is potential for bringing out some bad traits with crossing lines. personally, i know EIC is real, but still think that in the past folks got all worked up over it for nothing. DIB's dog is a perfect example. known affected dog that has gone down a couple of times, yet was 10 seconds from passing the most recent grand. if there wasn't a test for EIC, people would be lining up to get a pup from ROCCO. He is a fine dog, as long as he's got a driver that knows what he's doing

seriously though, just more proof that all EIC means is you gotta be careful with your dog when it is hot and when under a lot of pressure. but then again, you have to be careful with all dogs in the heat.

but i know the reality is that when you buy something new, and pay a lot of money for it, you want it to be as close to perfect as possible.

sorry for the soap box. i say go for it so that DIB can get him a HGH certified puppy.

[Damn_It_Boy]

for every pup born, there is a 50% chance that he or she will be a carrier. these odds apply to each puppy. in theory you could have all clear pups, or all affected pups. you'll likely have somewhere in between.

.

Not in a clear/carrier breeding...............it's 50% either clear or carrier...........NO AFFECTED.

And yeah, this HGH litter pup would be awesome................

[rebmd]

for every pup born, there is a 50% chance that he or she will be a carrier. these odds apply to each puppy. in theory you could have all clear pups, or all affected pups. you'll likely have somewhere in between.

.

Not in a clear/carrier breeding...............it's 50% either clear or carrier...........NO AFFECTED.

And yeah, this HGH litter pup would be awesome................

yep meant to say all carrier or all clear is possible in a litter. bigsprig is working me too hard and not letting me get enough sleep

fixed my original post.

[Mark Sehon]

Not a problem. Go for it!

[EvanG]

Each person who conducts a breeding has goals and purposes for doing it. It isn't a decision that should be taken lightly. It's a lot of work and expense, as well as responsibility. Personally, I think Labradors are among the most over-bred of all breeds, and that's saying something. Too much dog breeding period.

The best reason to conduct a breeding is to uphold and promote the best qualities and attributes of the breed. That would be evidenced by the best performance credentials the dog can obtain, the best health clearances, conformation, the best facilities for the breeding and whelping of the pups, and careful placement of the pups. If you aren't making that your target criteria, why must this breeding take place?

It's really pretty easy to get a well bred pup right now. I see no shortage of them. Many also have the health clearances to go along with it, especially from the best breeders. Sires and Dams in those breedings not only have great pedigrees, but frequently both have performance credentials; FT &/or HT. Give Mary Howley a call at Candlewoods kennels. She's the best breeder of Labradors in the nation. See what she thinks.

I strongly recommend taking no less than a vet's advice about breeding a carrier. Internet boards have good things to offer, but are subjective at best. Go to a vet you trust, and get a well informed opinion. Then please think this over. What does this breeding give the breed that it really needs? Then rest easy with your decision.

EvanG

[Damn_It_Boy]

Some vets still don't know chiat about EIC..........I had to educate mine. And he still doesn't know squat, and couldn't tell you off the top of his head the breeding implications. So, yeah.........take your vets advice.........bwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh.

(Note: I understand not all vets are this way, and have switched to a more knowledgable vet in my area.)

You don't need a vets advice concerning EIC, as all the info. you need is located on the Univ. of Minn. VDL website.

http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/cani ... /home.html

As to overbreeding........Labs are once again in the top 5 for most popular dogs in America, and rank higher in smarts than any other retriever. So, whether it's backyard breedings, or working dog breedings, they are wanted, and very popular animals.

[brandonvet]

Each person who conducts a breeding has goals and purposes for doing it. It isn't a decision that should be taken lightly. It's a lot of work and expense, as well as responsibility. Personally, I think Labradors are among the most over-bred of all breeds, and that's saying something. Too much dog breeding period.

The best reason to conduct a breeding is to uphold and promote the best qualities and attributes of the breed. That would be evidenced by the best performance credentials the dog can obtain, the best health clearances, conformation, the best facilities for the breeding and whelping of the pups, and careful placement of the pups. If you aren't making that your target criteria, why must this breeding take place?

It's really pretty easy to get a well bred pup right now. I see no shortage of them. Many also have the health clearances to go along with it, especially from the best breeders. Sires and Dams in those breedings not only have great pedigrees, but frequently both have performance credentials; FT &/or HT. Give Mary Howley a call at Candlewoods kennels. She's the best breeder of Labradors in the nation. See what she thinks.

I strongly recommend taking no less than a vet's advice about breeding a carrier. Internet boards have good things to offer, but are subjective at best. Go to a vet you trust, and get a well informed opinion. Then please think this over. What does this breeding give the breed that it really needs? Then rest easy with your decision.

EvanG

Very well said.
When I consult my clients about breeding, those are the ideas I ask them to keep in mind. What is it that this dog will contribute to the betterment of the breed? Are there traits or qualities this dog possesses, that most do not? The argument with EIC breeding is that these dogs are considered to be among the best working retriever bloodlines. My personal feeling is that the EIC trait could be bred out of these dogs with little to no detriment to the quality and drive of these dogs. I would just be cautious and responsible with the breedings and as stated previously, educate potential buyers as to what they are getting.