Question for DU and DW members

[ChadL03]

They were trapping the beavers, because they were causing the water level to rise in most of the small lakes. The higher water level was killing a lot of the wild rice that the ducks feed on.

[teul2]

$200

WTF? How many pages was this copy?
I thought about going up there to see what it would take to get that info. I am only about 4 miles from their main office on Eastover in Jackson. If someone would like I can run over there and ask.

[waterbug]

Last year it was ten cents per page. They also may not give you everything and then you have to appeal their partial denial of certain documents.

[Seymore]

They may already do this, but, I haven't seen it. I have been a member of both for less than a year so I haven't seen a full year of their publications yet.

I'd like to see them print their income statements, balance sheets, and final approved budgets for the coming year in their respectie magazines. These should be certified by an independent auditor if not done so already. I am not talking about a side bar buried on page 85. I am talking front and center and the main article in that edition. If you give your money to an organization, you should be able to see these documents without to much hassle.

As Ronald Reagan said about the former Soviet Union, "Trust, but verify".

[torch]

DU does that. But with all the accounting scandals you can really make them read what you want. I would love to see DU and DW meet on 60 minutes or 48 Hrs and answer all these alegations and rumors. DU should do it just for some GOOD PR if nothing else.

[Seymore]

DU does that. But with all the accounting scandals you can really make them read what you want.

That's why an independent auditor is used.

Our aduit department had shirts made one time for a company gathering that said "In God we trust, everybody else gets audited."

[torch]

Didn't Enron have auditors?

[Chad Manlove]

Torch,

Ducks Unlimited does not control access to any refuges. We don't own land in the south. In fact, we don't manage any property in the south. If we restore a piece of ground on public land, the USFWS or State Wildlfie Dept. ultimately controls access and management responsibility on their lands, not DU.

We do own land on the breeding grounds. Each tract is open to the public for duck hunting opportunities during the fall.

Not sure why you think DU is involved with setting harvest regulations, it's absolutely not the case. We don't conduct spring breeding pair surveys either. The USFWS conducts the surveys (breeding pair and may ponds) and uses that information to help set season regulations for each of the Flyways. Once the frameworks have been set, the State of Mississippi decides how to set the days. Again, DU is not involved with either process.

[torch]

Chad your telling me none of the data and research done by DU is ever used by the USFWS. None of the breeding pairs research? How can DU project the fall flight #'s. Explain why DU logo is on every refuge sign you see.

[Seymore]

Didn't Enron have auditors?

Yes, Enron had auditors. Both internal and external. Enron's and World Coms troubles came about from internal auditors tied to close to executive management. That's why hire external independent auditors to verify the books and look over your internal auditing department.

The next argument will be, "wasn't Arthur Anderson an external auditing firm"? If memory serves me it was Arthur Anderson that had troubles. The answer is yes and they got burned and lost alot of credibility.

It ain't Utopia, but, it's the best system of checks and balances that exists. An external auditor is not listed in the newspaper to many times with scandal and stays in business.

Neither DU nor DW could afford any "cooking of the books" being non profit entities. I am not implying that they are, just making a general statement about any non profit organization. That's why I hope they have a good outside auditors.

How about it Chad, does DU have their books examined by an external auditor?

[Chad Manlove]

Torch,

DU does not "project" the fall flight numbers. We simply use the numbers that the USFWS reports in their "Trends in Duck Breeding Populations Report". This report is published each July and is based on breeding pair counts as well as May pond numbers. Again, these aren't our numbers. Delta Waterfowl does the same thing. As soon as this report is published, organizations use the information to report to their membership how breeding conditions were the previous spring.

DU appears on refuge signs only if we at least partially funded a wetland restoration project on that specific refuge. We haven't completed projects on all refuges. No where even close. Just because our name is on the sign, doesn't mean we control access or even management responsibilites. If it is refuge land, the USFWS makes ALL the decisions.

[Chad Manlove]

Seymore,

Yes, we use Independent Auditors.

Specifically, we use Pricewaterhouse Coopers LLP from Memphis, TN

[Po Monkey Lounger]

I guess I should have prefaced the question that started this thread with the following assumptions regarding DU and DW: they do not control the weather; they do not set duck season frameworks; they do not set duck seasons within those frameworks; and they do not set bag limits ---these things are controlled by mother nature and the USF&W service.

Also, unless any of you have any evidence or proof to the contrary, I would like for everyone to assume that neither DU nor DW is "cooking" its books.

Chad has stated that DU does not and has not been "feeding ducks". Does anyone have any concrete proof or evidence otherwise? If not, then in IMO, you sound pretty silly making such assertions.

Also, Chad has stated that DU does not own any land in the South (south of the M/D line). Does anyone have any proof or evidence to the contrary?Even if this were true, I am not exactly sure what is so sinister about this if the land is being used for wetland conservation/duck management purposes.

Question for Chad. Since DU owns land in the Dakotas PPR and in the Canadian PPR, why doesn't DU promote this fact more in its magazine --especially the ability of the public to hunt these areas?

The comments so far are interesting. Some complaints/concerns are shared by me. Others appear to lack any factual foundation and appear pretty goofy. Keep them coming. There is a method to this madness.

[Chad Manlove]

We have promoted the fact that we own land in the PPR of South Dakota. Just two? issues ago in the DU magazine. We had a big feature on the PPR of South Dakota. It specifically discussed restoration and management on Goebel Ranch in Souht Dakota, our biggest land holding in the states (around 4,000 acres). It stated that this area is open to public hunting. We just don't own that many tracts in the U.S.

Most of the properties in Canada are huntable. When driving through the prairies in Canada, if it has a DU sign on it. There's a good chance you can hunt it. Many folks travel to Canada and only hunt DU properties.

Maybe folks just don't take the time to read the DU magazine articles??

[Seymore]

Also, unless any of you have any evidence or proof to the contrary, I would like for everyone to assume that neither DU nor DW is "cooking" its books.

I agree and hope that wasn't what came across. We went off on a tangent about Enron and their problems.

I do think that alot of these beliefs, theories, and allegations that have been stated about DU could be dispelled with DU publishing these documents. For instance all land holdings would be listed as an asset on the balance sheet for all the world to see. These documents can be obtained, but, most are not going to expend the effort.

Just seems DU could do this once a year and when the conspiracy theorist come out of the woodwork there would not be much to argue.