Migration Changes

[duck head]

I'll have to say that after studying on it for the last 2 seasons that I believe that migration routes have been forced to change due to hunting pressure alone. There is not a safe hole of water, other than refuges, anywhere in MS, LA or AR. Ducks have computer-like memories or they couldn't imprint and they damn sure remember where they have had their asses shot off everytime they try to land. I have never seen ducks as spooky as they have been this year. Absolutely scarred to death to land until they have checked out a hole a dozen times or more and usually from a high altitude. I never though I would say this as an avid duck hunter of 40 years, but I wish they would knock the season back to 2 ducks and 30 days and get the fair weather boys back to deer hunting. The only way we will ever see great hunting again is to get some of this pressure off of the birds.

[chopper30]

where they change their flight to duck head?
Not being sarcastic, just listening to your opinion, and trying to figure out if Jim has brain washed you.

[RIP EM]

These "no hunting" zones are really hurting us !

Someone on this thread, has already said this !

JUST WAIT TIL FEBUARY ! The ducks have been here all season !,... We just can't get to em !

JMHO

Rip Em !

[chopper30]

I hope they realize it's over before this weekend, so I can make sure those boys have plenty to shoot at!

[MSDuckmen]

I'll have to say that after studying on it for the last 2 seasons that I believe that migration routes have been forced to change due to hunting pressure alone. There is not a safe hole of water, other than refuges, anywhere in MS, LA or AR. Ducks have computer-like memories or they couldn't imprint and they damn sure remember where they have had their asses shot off everytime they try to land. I have never seen ducks as spooky as they have been this year. Absolutely scarred to death to land until they have checked out a hole a dozen times or more and usually from a high altitude. I never though I would say this as an avid duck hunter of 40 years, but I wish they would knock the season back to 2 ducks and 30 days and get the fair weather boys back to deer hunting.

No disrespect intended. but ... BAWAHAHAHAHAHA

Spooky birds, damn right because they were adult birds....
Big difference in hunting adult birds and most if not all hunters I've seen this year didn't have a clue on how to chase them.

Too busy at work trying to catch up today but I have some post ready for you boys and I sure hope you take heed of them cause your future in hunting until the weather gets back right will never get better until you learn to read the birds.

More to come later.

[Sparkleberry Ridge Runner]

Here is another thought to dispute. Ducks have been coming down the flyway for decades even during mild winters. The only reason that I can come up with as to why this is is that they come even when it is warm because their food ran out. Now, they may come a little later if it is warm but they will still eventually have to come when the food is gone. In the last 10 years or so we have improved farming practices(no-till) and we (DU) have created tons of habitat that have FOOD on them. Because of this the ducks do not run out of food as early as they used to. Now, we will never get a farmer to go back to the old money loosing practices, but can we change the practice of providing SO MUCH food for the ducks that they never have to migrate? A 60 year old duck hunter told me this past weekend that the ducks used to cam in Dec. then it got to be the first of Jan. then the end of Jan. now it is Feb. A duck can handle the cold as long as there is food.
Along the same lines I believe that young ducks learn where to go(south) from their parents. Instinct makes them return to their breeding grounds, not fly south for the winter. We are starting to have ducks in the population that have never learned where to go because their parents have never had to go because they have never run out of food where they are.

[RIP EM]

I'm just gonna keep huntin them fun-sum-britches !!!

Rip Em !

[cajun squealer]

Well said, Sparkleberry!

You have positively identified one of the most important variables pertaining to waterfowl migration: agricultural practices.

[JimWalker]

The no till issue sure works for me, but is there really that much up there in the water? Or do they use dry ground up there more?

If it really is no till causing it, we are screwed.

[torch]

You guys have hit it in the head. Back in the early 80's when FHA was foreclosing on farmers a LOT of 40 and 80 acre farms became refuges. I am talking thousands. In North Bolivar county I know of 13 within a 5 mile radius. The ducks leave at dark to feed and return before daylight sit it there all day long just like clockwork. I have always felt that we have enough refuges in the system right now. As a tax payer I feel some of them should be huntable. Dahomey controls these in Bolivar county and they are strictly NO HUNTING. I would love to find out how many acres were done this way in the US in the early 80's.

[duck]

If you think DU is spending your money up north feeding ducks you are right. They been doing it for years. One thing you can do, don't send DU any money. IT didn't happen yesterday, the decline in duck migration that is. It happened when money was spent years ago for habitat improvement. The money was used up north not here in Ms.
Look at the post DU and EWG. DU will never do anything to enhance duck hunting in Ms. They might help duck numbers, but we wont see it help us here. And don't get me wrong, duck numbers need to improve.

[gyver]

i also think there is to much refuge and resting areas. i killed the majority of my birds in dec., about 64, 41 mallards. a friend and myself alone killed about 120, 90% in dec. alone. we thought the birds went back north, nope they were 100 yards the other side of the levee on a refuge area by the thousands. like the duck commander said " there is enough refuges and personal land set aside now to probably support the north american population" read D.U's mission statement , they have conserved more than 10 million acres in the U.S.A, canada, and mexico. 2,000,000 in the US alone. if 1 acre will support 5 ducks for 30 days think about 10,000,000. if their is 5,000,000 acres north of us that works out to 25,000,000 ducks for 30 days and ts pretty conservative at 5 ducks per acre. now if you figure in the amount of land some of these wealthy landowners have set aside it's amazing.
just my thinking.

[hbrown]

I agree with ya chopper. I believe the only way they go to Oklahoma is if the mississippi dries up

[mallardhunter]

I'll have to say that after studying on it for the last 2 seasons that I believe that migration routes have been forced to change due to hunting pressure alone. There is not a safe hole of water, other than refuges, anywhere in MS, LA or AR. Ducks have computer-like memories or they couldn't imprint and they damn sure remember where they have had their asses shot off everytime they try to land. I have never seen ducks as spooky as they have been this year. Absolutely scarred to death to land until they have checked out a hole a dozen times or more and usually from a high altitude.

Hmmmmm. From my perspective, there has been less hunting pressure this year than in year's past. Fewer hunters at the ramp and in the woods, 'cause there's no ducks, 'cause there's no weather. I've just returned from an 800-mile round-trip duck hunting adventure through Arkansas and Tennessee, and there are unhunted, flooded fields everywhere! Leases that aren't being hunted; fields flooded but never hunted. Have various friends who quit hunting their leases 'cause there's no ducks - 'cause there's no weather. My buddy travelled about the same distance but came from Mississippi to meet me in Arkansas and said the same thing - he saw unhunted fields everywhere. Launch ramps are nearly empty - as compared to how they have been in the past, when water was abundant and weather up north forced the ducks to migrate. Then, you'll see real pressure, and we'll still whack 'em daily!

We hunted an area with "spooky" ducks as you described. We had to blow loud and hard to get a few into the hole every day. We could keep 'em treetop high, looking at the hole with the call, but we won't treetop 'em. I literally blew out my throat to coax a few down each day. Still can't talk well, my throat is so sore. Then, we shook our local experts, who had hunted those woods all their lives (and knew all the tricks and "good spots"). We discarded everything they told us and spent the better part of a day just watching ducks work the timber. We sat in big holes in the timber, just observing the ducks. We burnt a half a tank of boat gas, riding around, watching the ducks. We sat on the levee, sipping coffee and watched the ducks. After we paid attention to the ducks and not the local wisdom, we took turns and easily shot a limit each of decoying mallards coming to the calls just like they do on the videos, dropping down into the timber. Not spooky at all. This area was almost empty of hunters while we were doing this. Hunting had been terrible for days for almost all of the local hunters who had been hunting the "good holes". All of the experts knew no ducks would be in the timber on a cloudy, almost foggy, near rainy day. Wrong!

The ducks would not come to a huge hole in the timber, complete with decoys, jerk strings, spinners, mallard machines, wobble ducks et al. They were, however, dropping into the timber in droves. Nobody was hunting the timber; they were all hunting the holes in the timber! We easily called in several hundred happy, relaxed mallards who dropped straight down to the calls with no decoys, just a leg kicking a ripple and a duck call. There were only about 12 boats still out while we were doing this. There had been about 75 boats that went out that morning.

That night, at dinner, we talked with a group of hunters who were complaining that the ducks were scared and wouldn't come into their holes. They even commented on how many they saw falling into the timber 70 yards out from their "good holes". All we said to them was that we had seen pretty much the same thing.

[mallardhunter]

Duck migration has changed. It changes and is different every year! There are two factors to consider:
1. What forces a mallard to come south?
2. Why does he go where he goes when he does come south?

Mallards will stay as far north as they possibly can. Lack of food and/or lack of open water will force 'em south - nothing else. A lack of food can occur with a snow fall of six inches or more, because that covers the food. A lack of food can also occur if the ducks eat out the available food. They will eat it out only if the temps are low, forcing them to eat more. Low temps will freeze backwater, but ducks can and will keep a larger body of water open by using it. They can dry feed then hit the open water. Certainly no-till farming has made more food available than before, when it was plowed under before the migration started. Snow will cover no-till food and force the ducks south to find food.

Trouble is, the last few years have been unusally warm and dry up north, where the ducks stay unless forced south. The weekend of 01/24-01/25 2004 was the first snowstorm to cover the Miss. flyway from Missouri to Canada with any appreciable snow. The following image is useful as a tool to figure out where the ducks are:
http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag310.html
The majority of the snow shown in the upper Miss. valley just appeared over the past few days.

To say that ducks come south even when it's warm is thinking locally, while a duck reacts flyway-wide. Sure, you may have shot ducks in your shirtsleeves in years past, but you've gotta know what the weather was up north that year to figure out what forced those ducks into your warm-weather blind. There have been a lot of years when the upper Miss. valley was hammered with snow, while the lower Miss. valley basked in relatively warm weather. The local weather has little to do with whether or not the ducks migrate, just like local hunting pressure has NOTHING to do with whether a duck migrates. A duck 200 miles (or less) north of you has no idea whether you're hunting or not.

Once the ducks start south, why do they go where they go? Food and water. Arkansas is a good example of a state that has been dry for the past few years. Eastwoods blames the lack of ducks in the woods on rice field availability. I've hunted over there for years, and until the Cache and White Rivers put water in the woods, ducks aren't going to be in the woods - because they're dry! Where I found flooded green timber in Arkieland this year, we whacked ducks (public lands, too) once we paid attention to the ducks. Mississippi has been relatively dry as well. Both states have suffered over the past few years because the Mississippi River hasn't flooded out, which raises all of the feeder rivers and puts water everywhere. Cotton has been planted in many areas of the southern Miss. valley, and this hurts your local duck numbers. Ducks will overfly a dry area or one with little or no food, until they find food and water.

I don't worry about imprinting much. Once the migration is forced to start, they will find food and water. I hunt a small place that only floods once every 5 to 10 years. Very rarely does it hold water, but whenever it floods, the ducks find it - almost overnight if there is a reason for them to be migrating in the first place. And this spot is a good 200 miles from the Miss. River, yet will be covered in ducks when it floods even if it hasn't held a duck in the past 10 years.

DU should be applauded for doing what their membership requested. They listened to the DU members who b*tched during the '80's because all of DU's money was spent in Canada. Many of the members thought that wintering habitat in the US should be where some of the money be spent. DU responded and did just that. Now, they are being blamed for poor hunting - because they listened to their members and did what they were asked to do. 10 million acres that are covered in snow at least six inches deep won't support any ducks! DU's land would have to support the ducks for 6 months to affect the migration, not 30 days. The migration starts about Sept 1 up north. According to gyver's numbers, the 2 million acres DU has conserved in the US would support 10 million ducks for one month. Nationwide there are 36 million ducks, so the DU land could support all of those ducks for . . . about 7 days, from 09/01 til 09/07. If you take his other approach - "if their is 5,000,000 acres north of us that works out to 25,000,000 ducks for 30 days" - and realize that nationwide there are 36 million ducks, that would mean that, at best, DU could support those ducks from 09-01 till about 09-25. Then who you gonna blame?

It's the weather, plain and simple. More importantly, it's the weather up north, not the weather in your backyard. There are no conspiracies among DU, northern states, FWS or anyone else to short-stop the ducks, or feed the ducks. Blame the weather, nothing else.

Why on earth does anyone think that changing local hunting seasons would in any way affect migrations? Quit thinking locally, and start thinking from a duck's perspective. A duck in Michigan or Kentucky or Tennessee has no idea whether the season is open in Miss. (or how much hunting pressure there is). To a duck, hunting season lasts five months long, regardless of whether *you* get 60 days to hunt or 30. Duck season opens about Sept. 01 and ends in late January - five months later. Longer if you're a teal or pintail and migrate to Mexico where they're shot at until March or April!

Now, ya'll can take turns telling me how wrong I am!