Training dogs...

[SoftCall]

I agree with just about everything that's been said. Regardless of what route you go, you are gonna have to take the dog to the blind frequently. I think experience in the blind is the best training of all. Be prepared to get frustrated.

There's one other resource you can call if you are interested. The magnolia retriever club out of Jackson has some members with a great deal of experience. There is (or was) a member named Milton Holcomb who I consider to be one of the best.

[Bobby Williams]

Training a dog is a lot of fun you will learn as much as the dog or more. Has your dog been forced fetched? If not be prepaired for a battle.There is a pro trainer named Marty Newport that might give you some pointers.I can't remember just where he is located in MS but I'll bet Goosebrouce knows. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[bluwtr]

Hey guys,

Dumb question time---exactley what is "Force Fetching"? I have tried to pick it up from other threads, but just don't make the connection.

I want to thank all of you for your suggestions.

Wes [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[professor]

I used the methods in Water Dog and was quite satisfied. Obviously, my dog liked the book as well. After about three months of training, I forgot the book and left it outside. My dog ate the thing from cover to cover.

[bluwtr]

[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] That is hilarious!!! And I thought my lab was the only one that will eat anything---clothes, rocks, sticks etc.

I really like what Wolters says in his book. I sorta' think that the dates are a bit strict, but other than that, I agree with him. I sometimes don't know the meaning of the words that he uses. I guess I should have been around in the sixties!

Thanks alot,

Wes

[chance]

You will want your dog to fetch on command. Most people use force to accomplish this task. Ear pinch or toe pinch are some of the force methods applied to ingrain the fetch command. Jim Dobbs has two videos that explain the process very well. They are called Fetch and Hold. Hold is the command taught before fetch. It does no good to have a dog fetching something if it won't hold it.
I would suggest you find a retriever trainer and work with that person to accomplish fetch and hold. Money spent on your dog on these two basic commads is nothing compared to a well trained dog in the duck blind with you for years to come.

[peewee]

Hey bluwtr, this may sound crazy, but my lab is a little over a year old and there is a man that hunts in the hunting club next to mine that I met 2 weeks ago (Walt). Walt has one of the best trained dogs I have ever seen and he told me could come down to the camp and have my dog trained in no time.

Well Drake (my dog) knows his commands but sometimes making him obey them is a different story. Well Walt showed up at my camp Thursday night and in about 10 minutes he had Drake doing things that were unbelievable to me. The dog didn't even have the same attitude. All Walt did was politely give him a command a few times. If Drake didn't obey he would wrestle him down and growl at him and bite his neck. It took about 2 or 3 minutes of this and then about another 5 to 10 minutes of just playing with him and gaining his trust and damn old Drake would do anything he told him to. Without hesitation.

I know there are gonna be some people on this site that say he is crazy but if you could ever see his dog Sam it is unbelievable.

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: peewee ]

[bluwtr]

Actually Peewee it's not that suprising. I've read and heard about "mounting" dogs. The theory is that in the pack the alpha male will mount the lessers. This shows his dominance over them. It's sorta like putting them in their place. I admit that I had to do this to my dog because he started maturing and was trying to move up in the pack. Especially with my son who's ten. All three of us in our family did it. Granted it wasn't the most glamorous moment in our lives but it worked.

Wes

[Anatidae]

Well, 'sounds like you're really anxious about duck season. It's gonna be real hard to resist tryin' to CRAM 2 years of 'drills' into 4 weeks. If that's the case, I feel sorry for the dog......and as for you....you'll deserve every bit of the frustration associated with that.

I'm not a 'dog' man like 'Goose' and Bobby, Chance and some of the others here, but I don't know of a trainer that would recommend you do ANYTHING with that dog, until you get him through obedience training......It's just gonna be impossible to get results that you could even tolerate in the field, right now. Like 'Goose' said, 'you think that puppy is hard to control now, wait 'til you get him in the field and he gets so excited that he won't even know you're there. 'Talk about something that'll get you fired-up......when you finally DO get his attention, you'll never convince him you ain't gonna choke him to death if he lets you get THAT CLOSE! [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] It's just gonna be worse...tryin' to correct him under those circumstances. This is the voice of experience, here. [img]images/smiles/icon_redface.gif[/img]

E-collar? An e-collar in the hands of someone who even THINKS he'll never use it 'unless he has to', spells doom and disaster for both you and any hopes you have of EVER having a 'good hunting companion'.

I'm not tryin' to embarrass you.....I'm in the same 'boat' when it comes to 'training'...I don't know 'didley', but I DO know how quick you can screw-up a dog who might otherwise be a candidate for the duck blind. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] I'd rather take a chance on pissin' you off, than to see your puppy subjected to somebody with as little knowledge as you and I seem to have regarding training. If I've offended you, I'm sorry....you'll just have to be 'pissed'.

Read your books, 'don't excpect too much too soon, get as much qualified advice as you can, and try to find a 'club' in your area. Hunting needs to be 'fun' for both of you.......'ain't gonna be that way 'til you gain control. Otherwise, it's not fair to him! GOOD LUCK! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[bluwtr]

Anatidae,

You don't know me and you don't know squat about my dog. I have been training him since he was brought home at 7 weeeks. He sits, heels, stays and takes straight away retrieves. He has been through obediance training. I was asking for other help on other areas. You know it as well as I do that the way to learn is ask questions. I am NOT trying to cram a years worth of training into 4 weeks. That's not fair to the dog or myself. When I got him I wanted to try and hunt him this year, but due to other obligations I haven't been able to train consistanly. For this reason I doubt I will "hunt" him this year. I plan on getting out and used to all the new sights, smells and sounds, but I know that I have to take it slow because I haven't trained as I should. As far as knowledge goes again you don't know me, so don't make a judgement! I appreciate your opinions but don't take shots at me. Like you said "you don't know didley", so don't preach to me. By the way, where did you get your info that you have made all of these jabs at me. I just asked a simple question to start this thread and I've gotten a couple of smart ass answers. I was just asking for help. And you never know, there might just be other guys on this site who were too embarassed to ask about this same subject. [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

[bluwtr]

Sorry for going off in the last post guys, but I hope you ALL understand my points. Thanks for all of the info that has been supplied. I am going to the Mike Lardy web site. I assume it is mikelardy.com. I also am going to call Tom Hamilton.

Thanks again and keep it coming.

Wes [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[greenheadhunter2000]

blu,I'm not a dog expert by any means,but I owned a black lab that was an excellent hunter before he was killed by a truck.I trained him myself using whatever help I could get.I learned alot too.First and most important of all,if you go hunting,take dog with you,even if he isn't quite up to standard.If you go scouting,to the bathroom,where ever,take him and spend time with him.It's part of the bonding process.Once you've rebonded with him,it will more than please him to please you.You've got to be his best friend if you want him to be yours.Just be plain and simple with him about what you want him to do,but stearn and keep showing him till he gets it down.An old timer taught me this and he's trained more dogs than anyone around here.He even trained me.
Another sugestion he made was to use a choke collar.I have the one I bought to train my black.It only takes a light jerk to get his attention when he's done something wrong.He won't like it and will avoid that light jerk at all cost.I hope I've helped you a little bit and please don't take offense to this post,just tryin to help ya out.Have a four month old yellow I'm trying to train from ground zero now.It's frustrating,but we're making headway.And I promise I won't use the collar on him before he gets atleast a year old.The key ingrediant I have found is patience,patience and more patience.Good luck,My Friend! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[bluwtr]

GHH2K,

Thanks for the info and encouragment. I do plan on taking him with me this year. As far as being best friends [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] , most of the time I can't get him out of my way to move or go out a door! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I think we have bonded very well. I always show him affection, even if it's just a little pat on the head.

I'm like you, no dog expert, but I was told by dog trainers(obidence school) that Labs are very succeptable to larynx damage with the choke chains, even when used properly. They recommended the pinch collar. When I first saw it, I didn't want to use it. Damn thing looks like something out of a meidevil torture chamber. I even tried it out on my leg, before I put it on him. It constricts around a larger area so the pressure isn't localized. It is used the same way as the choke; quick jerks. I love it! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I know the dog does also. Whenever I get it out he gets all excited, because he knows we are going to train or go somewhere or whatever. It's hilarious, he'll sit in front of me and shake with excitment.

Hope this helps you too, and thanks again.

Wes

[bear]

Force training is a method to teach the dog to fetch and hold anything on command. It is useful even with a dog that is retriving to hand. It will avoid the bad habits of being too hard mouthed or soft mouthed and will pay off in dividends down the road.

I was skeptical about the benefits until I tried it on my second dog. It really does the job and although may take 2 weeks to finish, the pay off is over the entire dogs life. The Jim Hobbs tapes are the way to go. If you follow them step by step, you can not go wrong.

Anatidae can certainly rub you wrong!! He has the tact of a cotton mouth! [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

[greenheadhunter2000]

aaaaaawwwwwww,bear,anatidae is just one of them old farts that calls it like he sees it.Right,Anatidae? roflho(rolling on floor laughing head off)