Have we set the bar too high?

[SB]

RE: The post “Your Season as a Whole”

This a very interesting post. It gives one insight to how a hunter judges a season. This has been an interest of most all waterfowl biologist within the lower 48, what constitutes a good season, or a poor season, to a hunter? It is not a surprise that hunters use the number of birds harvested to determine how successful their season has been. A few of us theorize that the number of ducks harvested by a hunter in relation to “the limit” determines hunter satisfaction.

By looking at the replies to the post, the average harvest is probably about 3 birds/hunter/day. If the limit was three birds most everyone would feel like things are going well. But averaging 3 ducks with a 6 duck limit leads to dissatisfaction.

Hunters like to be able to say, “ I got THE LIMIT.” I’m as guilty as the next guy on this. Would we be more satisfied with a three bird limit, because it is more obtainable and we all could say, “ I got THE LIMIT.”

Hunter satisfaction is being discussed by Flyway biologist, believe it or not. We do actually hear your concerns. I have a concern of trying to build in hunter satisfaction into a biological model. Instead of letting the biology of the species drive management, we would let hunter satisfaction have more of an influence in the decision making process.

We know by this web site that each of us derive hunt satisfaction a little different from the next guy. A northern hunter gauges his hunt differently from a southern hunter. Could you imagine compiling this information from north to south for each flyway and incorporating it into the regulation process!

Have we set the bar too high?

[millineum mallard]

Personally, I would like to see the limit dropped to three mallards with no more than one suzie....When the limits were lower and the numbers were lower, we had less yahoos skybustin' ducks. We had a whole lot less pressure and better quality hunts as a whole. I don't care about killing alot of birds, but it would be nice to be able to hunt with my Uncle that's turning 60 pretty soon and be able to at least kill a duck. My most memorable hunts were the ones that we could have killed over the limit, but just worked 'em and sat in awe over what God had given us. The truth is that higher limits....enormous number predictions....and alot of advertising our sport has created a damn monster truckload full of guys that think just because they bought some decoys and a call that makes them a duckhunter. The last two years have been just pitiful and to have to hunt public and have people set-up on you, flare ducks, and skybust just makes me sick.
My .02....
St.John Barq

[TAK'UM]

you can never get some hunters satisfied, even if you cut the limit off. i like the way it is but, they do need to cut limit to one suzie.

[millineum mallard]

Everyone has the right to hunt....I just wish that they could do it right. Things were just better when the sport wasn't in the spotlight....the limits were lower....and it wasn't F'ing GQ to be a duckhunter.....Hell, it seems as though being a duckman is a status symbol, instead of a tradition, or who you really are inside. I told my Uncle years ago that I was thinking about trading my gun for a camera....He said that I was crazy...I like bustin' dem feathers....Now, it seems that I couldn't buy a duck and I KNOW what I'm doing.....I know how to talk to 'em and I love just seeing them cupped and coming in. This is my Uncle's last season and I am literally sick to my stomach that it seems that I won't get a decent hunt with him again.....This is the first year in 17 years that I haven't shared the boat with him and it doesn't look like the weather is going to cooperate.
St.John

[tennduckdog]

In my opinion the limit doesn't really matter. I do like to be able to say that I got a limit, but there again I would enjoy the experience just as much if I only killed three birds. I myself don't even like to eat duck. I give most of what I shoot to others that do and keep a few ducks a year for gumbo. The hunt is what I enjoy. I like the chance to see my years worth of dog training show results and the chance to shoot the bull with my friends. I would actually like to see the bag changed to zero susies for adults and two for youths. I can restrain from shooting a susie, but I introduced my cousins to duck hunting and want them to experience as much success as possible on their way to developing into sportsmen. I don't think that putting meat in the freezer is the reason that duck hunters hunt ducks, they would be better off buying surf n turf. The economics of duck hunting just don't work out to be logical. But, that is how we get our kicks, better than going to the casino I guess. Bryan

[crow]

Scott, great question. It has been my observation over this sport, for the last 30 years, that each year the reality of duck hunting has changed. That is, what it takes to hunt, what it means to be successful in the hunt, what it means to be a duck hunter...all have changed significantly. In 1967, I could pull into pretty much any farmer's yard, talk awhile, and get permission to hunt ducks on the place. The only reaction would be, "If you're fool enough to hunt a damn duck, you go right on ahead!" That will happen only rarely today. What has changed?
I contend that the major changes have come due to the "merchandizing" of the sport. It began to change when major organizations started to make it "cool" to duck hunt. Peter Coors and Ducks Unlimited come to mind. Please note, I am not attaching a bad/good value to these changes, just pointing out that they seem important, to me at least. Later came the proliferation of hunting videos for sale. Mossy Oak, Duck Commander, and anyone else who could put together a camera and shoot a video. Then came the tv shows. These tv shows and video's distort the perception of success to the viewer. How many videos and tv shows show a hunt where two ducks are killed? How many show thousands of ducks in the air and hundreds falling into the decoys for the kill shot. To a significant "newcomers" to the sport (and, that is not a disrespectful label, just means those who have come into the sport since the advent of the merchandizing" of hunting) the reality of duck hunting is what is seen on these videos and, when compared to the daily average Joe's hunt, the average experience just can't measure up.
Duck hunting and the marketing of it have become a huge merchandizing beauracracy. And, the first order of a beauracracy is to perpetuate itself. What retailer, what manufacturer, what professional tv host is going to stand up for a change to a lower limit,. For that matter, what farmer who has gotten used to the extra market for hunting property will want the changes that it may take to realign and balance a sport that has gotten the dollar value out in front of the value of the experience for the average Joe Hunter?
There will be enormous pressure to maintain the status quo in duck hunting; including limits, marketing/sales, lease values, and entertainment. Change back to a simpler "hunt" and associated values will come hard.
By the way Scott, it was good to spend some time talking with you. Sorry the ducks had headed north. But, at least, I have a quality photo of a pair of "fine" waders that I know will show up with a comment about "Georgia duck hunters" somewhere in the future. Wonder where the "kitchen sink" wound up!

[JimWalker]

I think most hunters want the most they can get and that's the only real reason they join DU and others. 6 is a magic number with regard to this because the average hunter will have to shoot into at least 3 flights to get to that number and possibly more. 60 and 6 is plenty of time and enough ducks.
However I am with millineum in that these days I'm satisfied from the start just to be set up somewhere that a boat load of yahoo's isn't ruining my chances of shooting even one duck. We have a definet yahoo factor going on that is out of control, if you men who just add two yahoo's per day to our limit, I am sure we could straighten it out quickly.
I am for a 30 and 3 for 3.

[jroc]

Crow your are on the money.

Hopefully the market will soon become saturated and then the numbers will fall off. Hopefully something else will become "cool" to do and the masses will go. Hopefully our whole culture will change and quit making the almighty dollar the idol of worship. Hopefully one day I will again see the Eutopia of a time gone past..........

[MSDuckmen]

Yes SB I have alwasy said they were too high.

The limit should never be over three unless they require more killed like we are doing with geese now.

Three birds are just enough, Not too little not too much. Just right.

Even a novice will aquire a limit from time to time.

It allows for you to get out there and get back thus giving the birds more time without harrassment.

During the long hours of being alone at camp this year I sat down and started writing and found that I amaze myself at how smart I really am.
Joking aside I definded what I see as the problem and I also wrote several short stroies that I thought were pretty good.
I plan on posting these upon my return.

The answer is yes we have gone to far.

[go24]

I think I know what would cure the "problem"- Let the Federal boys institute a nationwide drawing. Only those hunters who get "drawn" can waterfowl hunt each season(just like on the refuge). This would cut down on the # of hunters that seem to be chaffing those w/ seniority in the sport.

[gamehog]

Crow your are on the money.

Ditto. The merchandising/marketing phenomena isn't limited to just duck hunting. Look what's happened to fly fishing, bass fishing, deer hunting, etc. "More is better, you've got to buy this new piece of gear , etc etc".

[CBU93]

You guys are nuts...I welcome any and all "newcomers" to the sport. The "good ol days" if you will are gone forever, and we as a group of hunters would be foolish to not welcome every single person into our ranks. The larger our voice, the greater the chance to being heard. This results in more money being generated for the future of our sport. The ever increasing encroachment of man into natural habitat, changing trends in the American social system, and the threat of anti hunting propaganda are all battles that we need "newcomers" for the preservation of our cherished lifestyle!

Of course, I would be tickled to kill limits on every hunt...but right now, I would be happy to take three birds per man per hunt. I can count on my hands (no need for toes) how many times that has happened for me over the last few years. Six bird limits I can count on one hand, with the majority of that being early this year. I could accept shorter seasons, slightly lower limits provided the season is structured around greatest influx of birds in the migration.

[JimWalker]

Making money is what is changning this sport into something different.
I don't think anyone is going to change it back.
The only things that will even temper the changes are shorter seasons and half the limit.
I don't buy the Duck Hunter as endangered species logic, where any ole person who wants to show up and mess up your hunting is an asset to the overall community. I also grow weary of the fear factor talk to justify them. 50% of my hunts this year were altered in outcome by these people.
If I cant hunt because of them, then I dont want them, I dont care if our numbers drop to early 80's numbers. These people today are the most self serving and disrespectful hunters I have ever seen.
They do not care about the quality of your hunt, they consider themselves to be competing with you, instead of themselves and the ducks, and will do anything they can to take your chances away from you.
It is quite sad. Then you have places like this that ensure they will appear because you guys talk about all the public places and lead them to the front door. That in itself has changed Miss hunting a great deal, and not for the better either mind you. Unfortunately I think nothing outside of 30&3 is going to change that. It's here to stay, and it isn't worth a hoot.

[jroc]

[quote="CBU93"]You guys are nuts...I welcome any and all "newcomers" to the sport. The "good ol days" if you will are gone forever, and we as a group of hunters would be foolish to not welcome every single person into our ranks. The larger our voice, the greater the chance to being heard. This results in more money being generated for the future of our sport. The ever increasing encroachment of man into natural habitat, changing trends in the American social system, and the threat of anti hunting propaganda are all battles that we need "newcomers" for the preservation of our cherished lifestyle!

quote]

Sorry but this sounds like the stuff I get in my mailbox from DU, CCA, NRA, etc,etc............

"more money being generated for the future of" generating more money.

[JT]

Scott,

I would have to say that hunter satisfaction differs with the individual hunter and is really a moot point. The overriding factor should be the management of the resource not a subjective idea of satisfaction. If the bird numbers can support a 6 bird limit then great. If it can't then lower them. If they can support more then raise them. It's that simple in my mind.

Hunters are really a strange lot at times. Duck hunters are no exception. We whine about our hunting rights being threatened because we are in the minority. When we make some inroads to increase our numbers we complain that there are too many hunters because we have to compete for locations and opportunities. Legal hunters snipe at other legal hunters because they don't hunt the same way, use the same methods or follow the same "ethics". We complain about the novice as if we were never novices. One person hunts to be outdoors and is satisfied just with the experience. Another primarily wants to limit out for the trophy. Another primarily wants meat in the freezer. All are equally ethical and valid pursuits of satisfaction. Since hunter satisfaction is mainly subjective how can one realistically factor it in to the equation?

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are trying to say and I think it's commendable but I don't see hunter satisfaction as your realm. I don't think it an attainable goal. Your goal should be to enforce the laws and manage the resource based on real data not subjective opinions or preferences. I think that all we can ask as hunters is that the game management decisions be based on real and reliable data and the laws enacted and enforced fairly. If that is the case we should all be satisfied.