23 Minutes in Hell

[the doctor]

Apostles Creed is "man made" it is a declaration of faith and what you believe...many denominations use them in worship.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead. (some versions read "hell")
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy universal church*,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.

and absent Gods presence would be hell for me but so you know I m not making it uptry Mark 15:34 34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

forsaken: to forsake-to dessert or abandon; to isolate or vacate

the doc

[Wingman]

What does the asterik mean by the "universal church"?

Maybe that is an entirely new topic in itself.

[Wingman]

1 peter 3:19- in which also he went and made (before they went to prison) and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. lets keep references in the context they were meant. and as far as soul sleep. reread my above post about the rich man and lazarus. after they died lazarus' spirit went to paradise and the rich man's went to torment. if the rich man's spirit was sleeping he wouldnt have been able to ask abraham to let lazarus dip his finger in water to cool his tongue or ask that lazarus be let go to tell the rich man's brothers about this place of torment.

Definitely no "sleeping" after death. In Heaven you won't be tired and will be eternally praising God. In Hell you will be tortured for eternity.

I just cannot grasp eternity. Especially an eternity in torment. Face it, on earth, you can experience torment, but you can eventually succumb to it and "escape" through death. In Hell, there is no escape....for EVER.

I just get into deep thought about it and my brain starts to short circuit. I was telling my wife that I wouldn't wish Hell on someone, not even the worst, most evil, criminal. Maybe for a little while, until "the punishment fit the crime" but not for eternity. The stark reality of it all is that we are all bound for Hell and an eternity in torment unless we choose to follow Christ. I deserve eternal torment just as much as a mass murderer does.

[Ordek Avci]

1 peter 3:19- in which also he went and made (before they went to prison) and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. lets keep references in the context they were meant.

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. - 1 Peter 3:18-20 (ESV)

There's the context. It seems to me that Jesus preached to these men after he was dead and before he was resurrected. I get that from a simple, straight forward reading of v. 18. He proclaimed to these spirits after he was put to death in the flesh (on the cross), but alive in spirit. I think the emphasis on Jesus' bodily resurrection elsewhere in the New Testament makes it obvious here that when Peter says Jesus was "alive in spirit" that he had not be resurrected yet. Also, the fact that the people he was preaching to are "in prison" because they "formerly did not obey," formerly as in at the time he was preaching to them. The people he preached to did not obey during the time of Noah according to v. 19, which means they would be long dead by the time Jesus came around. It seems to me that in context, that the verses are saying that Jesus, after he was dead and before he was resurrected, preached to those dead spirits that had disobeyed during the time of Noah.

Discuss.

[StraightUp]

Soul sleep is a concept that many believe regarding a person's soul after death. They think that our souls are not in torment or heaven imediately when we die. They are in "soul sleep" or unconscious somewhere until the day of judgement. Then, they are taken out and their eternal destiny is decided by God.

I don't buy it, but you'd be surprised at the number who do.

[Wingman]

I've enjoyed the discussion thus far.

[the doctor]

What does the asterik mean by the "universal church"?

Maybe that is an entirely new topic in itself.

not entirely sure

we use "Holy Catholic Church"

the doc

[duckhunterdoc]

I like the "creed"--read for the first time visting a small country Methodist Church. Again Catholic was used over universal. This was the first time i have seen the variation of it with "universal"... but when i researched it some( wondering why the Methodist were hanging out with the Catholics)(lol) i found Catholic meant Inclusive,broad, or liberal scope, or universal. So it would mean the "Church" the Body of believers

[Wingman]

I believe this is the same thing used in Emmaus. I wondered why the "catholic church" was referenced.

[dadbennett]

You have to die to go to hell?

[greencaps]

1 peter 3:19- in which also he went and made (before they went to prison) and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. lets keep references in the context they were meant.

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. - 1 Peter 3:18-20 (ESV)

There's the context. It seems to me that Jesus preached to these men after he was dead and before he was resurrected. I get that from a simple, straight forward reading of v. 18. He proclaimed to these spirits after he was put to death in the flesh (on the cross), but alive in spirit. I think the emphasis on Jesus' bodily resurrection elsewhere in the New Testament makes it obvious here that when Peter says Jesus was "alive in spirit" that he had not be resurrected yet. Also, the fact that the people he was preaching to are "in prison" because they "formerly did not obey," formerly as in at the time he was preaching to them. The people he preached to did not obey during the time of Noah according to v. 19, which means they would be long dead by the time Jesus came around. It seems to me that in context, that the verses are saying that Jesus, after he was dead and before he was resurrected, preached to those dead spirits that had disobeyed during the time of Noah.

Discuss.

what good would preaching to those who were already dead and their fate already decided do? we dont get a 2nd chance. those who were faithful to the Law were saved when Jesus died on the cross. because His shed blood flowed backward, for those who were faithful to the law of Moses, and forward to those who are obedient to the New Testament.

[Ordek Avci]

what good would preaching to those who were already dead and their fate already decided do?

I made no claim to know why it says what it says. I'm just trying to figure out what it says.

There are a lot of things that seems unnecessary to me, but who am I to tell God what he should or shouldn't do?

[Deep Woods]

Let us take a look at the verses mentioned here and understand what is meant by them.


1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins. The design of the apostle in this reference to the sufferings of Christ, is evidently to remind them that he suffered as an innocent being, and not for any wrong-doing, and to encourage and comfort them in their sufferings by his example. The reference to his sufferings leads him (1Pe 2:18-22) into a statement of the various ways in which Christ suffered, and of his ultimate triumph. By his example in his sufferings, and by his final triumph, the apostle would encourage those whom he addressed to bear with patience the sorrows to which their religion exposed them. He assumes that all suffering for adhering to the gospel is the result of well-doing; and for an encouragement in their trials, he refers them to the example of Christ, the highest instance that ever was, or ever will be, both of well-doing, and of suffering on account of it. The expression, "hath once suffered," in the New Testament, means once for all; once, in the sense that it is not to occur again. The particular point here, however, is not that he once suffered; it is that he had in fact suffered, and that in doing it he had left an example for them to follow.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins (Matthew 27:35-50), i.e., for the sins of men whom he came to save. He became a ransom for all and tasted death for every man. The just, i.e., Christ. The unjust, i.e., sinners. Being put to death in the flesh. Here two extremities are brought together, (1) the perfection of Christ Jesus with none other than good works; (2) his suffering of the most shameful death for having done only good works. Therefore the followers of Christ should willingly suffer for his sake to secure their own salvation, since Christ died for their sake without any profit to himself.


The just for the unjust. – meaning the one who was just, on account of, or in the place of, those who were unjust, or one who was righteous, on account of those who were wicked. The idea here which the apostle would particularly fix their attention was, that he (Christ) was just or innocent. So he was an example to those who suffered for well-doing.

That he might bring us to God. That his death might be the means of reconciling sinners to God. It is through that death that mercy is proclaimed to the guilty; it is by that alone that God can be reconciled to men; and the fact that the Son of God loved men, and gave himself a sacrifice for them, enduring such bitter sorrows, is the most powerful appeal which can be made to mankind to induce them to return to God. There is no appeal which can be made to us more powerful than one drawn from the fact that another suffers on our account. We could resist the argument which a father, a mother, or a sister would use to reclaim us from a course of sin; but if we perceive that our conduct involves them in suffering, that fact has a power over us which no mere argument could have.

1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

(1.) The preacher here is --Christ Jesus, who has interested himself in the affairs of the church and of the world ever since he was first promised to Adam, He went, not by a local motion, but by special operation, as God is frequently said to move, He went and preached, by his Spirit striving with them, and inspiring and enabling Enoch and Noah to plead with them, and preach righteousness to them.

(2.) The spirits/hearers. Because they were dead and disembodied when the apostle speaks of them, therefore he properly calls them spirits now in prison; not that they were in prison when Christ preached to them, as the vulgar Latin translation and the popish expositors pretend.

(3.) The sin of these people: They were disobedient, that is, rebellious, unpersuadable, and unbelieving, as the word signifies; this their sin is aggravated from the patience and long suffering of God (which once waited upon them for 120 years together), while Noah was preparing the ark, and by that, as well as by his preaching, giving them fair warning of what was coming upon them.

(4.) The event of all: Their bodies were drowned, and their spirits cast into hell, which is called a prison; but Noah and his family, who believed and were obedient, were saved in the ark.

1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2. From the whole we learn that,

(1.) God takes exact notice of all the means and advantages that people in all ages have had for the salvation of their souls; it is put to the account of the old world that Christ offered them his help, sent his Spirit, gave them fair warning by Noah, and waited a long time for their amendment.

(2.) Though the patience of God wait long upon sinners, yet it will expire at last; it is beneath the majesty of the great God always to wait upon man in vain.

(3.) The spirits of disobedient sinners, as soon as they are out of their bodies, are committed to the prison of hell, whence there is no redemption.

(4.) The way of the most is neither the best, the wisest, nor the safest way to follow: better to follow the eight in the ark than the eight millions drowned by the flood and damned to hell.

[Wingman]

Let's go back to this "sleep" thing.

I was reading Daniel last night. Very last chapter, where Michael the Archangel was about to leave and go back to fighting the Prince of Persia.

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." 12:2

"As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance." 12:13

[your-pal-al]

before Christ..... there were two sides of paradice. abrahams bosom and hades.abrahams bosom was a place of rest for the righteous and hades was a place of torment for the sinful. a great gulf was between the two that could not be crossed. after Christ's resurection...... you either go to heaven or hell. no pergatory no abrahams bosom. if you have not read "90 minutes in heaven" by donpiper i urge you to do so. he is the real deal. he came from texas to speak at our small country church in sc unpaid. he said God would provide and he did.

al