HEART WORMS

[Drakeshead]

I know all this as my female that I was using ivermec on showed a "slight" possitive. Vet did not want to treat as these could have been new microfilariae. So, he said to just keep her on Heartguard and see how things are in six months.

What some folks are discussing and worried about are heartworms that may, or may not, have built up a sort of immunity to ivermec which is used in Heartguard. Ivermec has about a 48 hour half-life. Another words, in 48 the heartworm killing strength of Heartguard is down to 50%. Thus, if the heartworm can just live through the first 48 hours, they can continue to live.

Bayer's new Advantage Multi uses a different heartworm killer and its half-life is much longer. I can't recall the length of half-life off hand, but I will get with J. Paul so he can refresh my memory.

I have yet to switch to Multi as I am waiting to see how folks do on it. The Vet I am using now said he would order it for me, the other Vet that works there and is younger would not do so, but I am waiting to hear more results from Multi users.

My biggest concern with Multi is that while it kills off the microfilariae, there is still some question as to whether or not it kills the adult filariae. So, while there may not be any microfilariae in the blood stream to show a positive heartworm test, there still may be adult heartworm filariae in the dog.

[Adonika]

I guess my question would be how would they build an immunity when they are just 'hatched', so to speak, anyway and secondly, Ivermectin has been a widely-used drug for years and years. Why has it not happened before now? These aren't like fleas that keep on living and multiplying after being exposed to a treatment. Heartworms don't breed and reproduce in the dog's blood. Sounds like a good marketing technique for a new product to me.

[Duck Picker]

I called every vet in my area today and none of them carry Advantage Multi (for dogs, they carried it for cats), nor would they write me a prescription for it so that I could order it online. The last veterinarian I visited actually took about 10 minutes to answer my questions and "educate" me some on heart worms, preventatives, positive tests and treatment. He recommended Interceptor above Heartgard so that's what I went with. He said that Interceptor is a higher dose than the Heartgard. I did make sure that Interceptor had the same guarantee that Heartgard did that if my dog tests positive while on their pill then they would pay for the treatment.

[Troy Williams]

Heartworms don't breed and reproduce in the dog's blood.

That's not accurate.

This from http://www.heartwormsociety.org/article_1143.html :

Canine Heartworm Disease

Dogs are considered the definitive host for heartworms ( Dirofilaria immitis). However, heartworms may infect more than 30 species of animals (e.g., coyotes, foxes, wolves and other wild canids, domestic cats and wild felids, ferrets, sea lions, etc.) and humans as well. When a mosquito carrying infective heartworm larvae bites a dog and transmits the infection, the larvae grow, develop and migrate in the body over a period of several months to become sexually mature male and female worms. These reside in the heart, lungs and associated blood vessels. As mature adults, the worms mate and the females release their offspring (microfilariae), pronounced: (micro-fil-ar-ee-a), into the blood stream.

Offspring can be detected in the blood (pre-patent period) about six to seven months after the infective larvae from the mosquito enter the dog. The male heartworms (four to six inches in length) and the females (10-12 inches) become fully grown about one year after infection, and their life span in dogs appears to average up to five to seven years.

[Troy Williams]

Ooooookie dokie folks. Time for a little heartworm lesson. First, regardless of the name, no heartworm preventative ever actually PREVENTS the heartworms. The stuff kills them before they get to be adults and do any damage...

The above is true....

BUT

Below is false......

THUS since most of the tests test for the little antigens in the blood when the larvae are present, if you test your dog for the antigens around the time you give the meds they can come up POSITIVE and never actually have a case of treatable heartworms. Get it?

Antigens are given off by adult females. So , if antigens are present you DO have an adult infection. This is also available at the Heatworm Society site, read below:

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/article_1143.html

Antigen Tests
Antigen tests detect specific antigens primarily found in adult female heartworms and are used with much success to detect canine heartworm infection. Currently, tests are available as in-clinic tests as well as at many veterinary reference laboratories. Most commercial tests will accurately detect infections with one or more mature female heartworms that are at least seven or eight months old, but the tests generally do not detect infections of less than five months duration.

[TBell]

Thanks, Troy, for your great research! It is very important that people understand exactly what the blood test is testing for and exactly what is happening in our area.

When I pay good money for a heartworm 'preventative', I expect it to work.....regardless of whether the company will pay if my dog comes down with a full blown case of adult heartworms. My dogs have now been inactive one full month after their treatment with 'Immiticide' an organic arsenic manufactured by Merial....the same company that manufactures 'Heartguard'. I am not too happy that I had to just poison two of my dogs that I have invested many dollars and years of training into.

I am also not very happy with the press release on the American Heartworm Society's website about their heartworm survey just conducted. The release says "Heartworm cases on the rise Across the United States" ....... "with prevalence highest in the Delta region." They indicate there are over 100 cases per clinic in this area, but give no statistics on the number of those cases that were already on preventatives!

The president of the AHS, Dr. Sheldon Rubin, even goes on to say "It’s important to understand all aspects of this preventable disease since it affects our beloved pets. This survey is part of the American Heartworm Society’s role in maintaining vigilance on heartworm disease.” This statement to me insinuates that none of these dogs were on preventatives and is very misleading. I would think that they could at least mention the fact that many dogs in the Delta area with heartworms were ALREADY ON PREVENTATIVES!! In my opinion a more 'vigilent' study would indicate what percent of the heartworm cases were on preventatives and what brand.

Read the entire article at [url][http://www.heartwormsociety.org/Heartworm-Cases-on-the-Rise%20.html/url]

[HighBall]

Is anyone else having heart worms problems.
this is the second time my male lab has tested postive in a year.
Heart guard is not working for me.I have to try something else.
does anyone on this site use Advantage Multi?

Cheeko,

I would advise you to give J. Paul Jackson at Lone Oak Retrievers in Dyersburg, Tennessee a call. I originally joined this forum because my dog tested positive. Someone else here told me to call J. Paul, and I was amazed at his knowledge and passion. He was quick to tell me that he is not a vet, but after talking to several DVMs and doing my own research I have concluded that he is onto something with his theories on the subject.

I believe that you can find his phone number on www.loneoakretrievers.com. Be sure to leave a message. I found that he rarely is by the phone during the day, and NEVER by it at night. He did call me back each time I called him, and he was very helpful.

[HighBall]

I know all this as my female that I was using ivermec on showed a "slight" possitive. Vet did not want to treat as these could have been new microfilariae. So, he said to just keep her on Heartguard and see how things are in six months.

What some folks are discussing and worried about are heartworms that may, or may not, have built up a sort of immunity to ivermec which is used in Heartguard. Ivermec has about a 48 hour half-life. Another words, in 48 the heartworm killing strength of Heartguard is down to 50%. Thus, if the heartworm can just live through the first 48 hours, they can continue to live.

Bayer's new Advantage Multi uses a different heartworm killer and its half-life is much longer. I can't recall the length of half-life off hand, but I will get with J. Paul so he can refresh my memory.

I have yet to switch to Multi as I am waiting to see how folks do on it. The Vet I am using now said he would order it for me, the other Vet that works there and is younger would not do so, but I am waiting to hear more results from Multi users.

My biggest concern with Multi is that while it kills off the microfilariae, there is still some question as to whether or not it kills the adult filariae. So, while there may not be any microfilariae in the blood stream to show a positive heartworm test, there still may be adult heartworm filariae in the dog.

Advantage multi has a half life of 35 days, compared to a half life of one day for Heartguard.

[Drakeshead]

Advantage multi has a half life of 35 days, compared to a half life of one day for Heartguard.

I was pretty sure that J. Paul said it was in the 30 day range, but wasn't certain and did not want to give out bad information.

The verdict is still not out as to whether or not Multi kills adults or just the microfilaria.

[cheeko]

I went to the Vet today in Oxford had a chest x-ray and his heart is in good shape.The vet told me it would be ok to run him and keep on with training.I am going to start the treatments again the 1st of june and i hope HeartGuard takes care of the bill.I am going to start using Advantage Multi when he test neg.

[Don Miller]

Heartguard refused to pay a penny for my labs treatment. He is nine years old and has been on a monthly dose of heartguard all of his life. I made a post about it under Heartguard on the main forum. I'll be looking for an alternative after he finishes his treatment.

[pstone]

That sucks DM. Are you going to treat him at 9?

[flyntwt]

im giving both Heartguard and AdvantageMulti... just to be safe. Anybody else doing this? I dont have a clue of the science behind this stuff so i figure id cover my booty.

[KWAKHED]

My vet is offering the proheart shot again on a trial basis. I used it on my old lab and had no problems. My new dog tested positive yesterday and they started the treatment. When I start him back on meds it will be the shot.

[sunnylab]

So someone tell me this...

If my dog had been diagnosed with small larvae heartworms, then he should have stayed on the preventative and come back later for further testing???
My vet said he had larva and no adult worms then took him off of heartgard....said the heartgard would kill him if he had heartworms...made no sense to me.

So now i have not treated him yet, but should i try anything to kill whats there now without treatment????
i'm so confused.