Blinds for HT

[Denlan4]

Chance,

Things have changed in the NAHARA hunt test scene...maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Decades ago I started in NAHRA. On the blind, the judges wanted to see control and efficiency. The rule book stated such; not necessarily a "line" to the blind. Bank running was not penalized, but in fact realized as better if the dog could snag it as that route was at least five times to ten times faster than swimming. Now I hear judges saying that they want "lines" to the blind, and runs staight to the marks to get 10's , even though the your dog might have to run through yard piles of fresh scents that previous flyers have aromaed with their alluring blood slpats and floating feathers. The condition for thefirst marking test are definitely different than the tenth dog running the test. Same with the blind and all the drag back scent. I'm not suggesting to change the testing, but perhaps the judges take into account the conditions of the test on how it is judged as conditions change.

Again, not necessarily "bad", but I see less seasonal hunters and more people just in it for the retriever game. At the master level, The "hunting scenarios" seems like a qualifying field trial...with concepts like line to the blind and 100yd "no cheating" marks.

I went to one Sauvie Island, Oregon test and there was a steel fence across the pond that the dog could not possibly cross to the blind in a straight line fashion. The solution was to handle your dog around the fence to the blind and back around again. No straight line, but the handler had to demonstrate control/teamwork with his dog.

At another NAhunt test in Georgia, I was in the middle of the pack of some twenty or so dogs. I watched every dog ahead of me try to line the blind through a thick stick/dead trees patch and wipe out. No fault of the dogs. They gave it all they had. It was sharp sticks and the floating pile of debris was gassing the dogs out and getting them stuck.

When it came my turn to run the blind, I chickened out. I ran my dog around that thick pile of sticks. On the way back the dog knew not to try and go thorouh it and I did not handle on the way back. I did ribbon that event. I did not see the judges scoring, but perhaps I scored low on the blind but made it up on the other sections of the test. But I was sure my dog would not make it though the stick pile after watching some fine dogs git et up by it.

I think often enough for blind retrieves, a line to the blind is not the not the high percentage strategy for hunt testing and real hunting. JMHO.

[gator]

IMHO, there ain't a blind worth judging or running in a hunt test that should EVER be set up so the dog could not procede straight and directly to the bird.

gator

[chance]

I have been running hunt tests for twelve years now. I agree that testing dogs has changed greatly. In every venue, testing scenarios have gotten tougher and tougher. On the up side of that, retrievers have gotten better and better. Change can be expected, nothing in life stays the same.

Testing rules and scenarios following popular opinion. If, we, the majority, think a straight line to the bird is the prefered route, then that is the benchmark for testing retrievers. Under normal circumstances, a straight line is the shortest distance and thereby the quickest route between two points.

I can give you a number of scenarios where running the bank would get the dog in a much worse condition than staying on line in the water. Any judge who would set up a blind that had impassable objects directly in line with the blind needs to rethink. Even in NAHRA. Maybe a reason NAHRA has seen such a decline in its numbers. Alarge number of NAHRA clubs have transitioned to HRC.

Denlan4, I would like to invite you to Southern Flight the last weekend of March. We will be in Grenada Miss. See for yourself the testing scenarios. The testing you described is more of the AKC variety. I feel you will be more pleased with the HRC variety.

[Denlan4]

Testing rules and scenarios following popular opinion. If, we, the majority, think a straight line to the bird is the prefered route, then that is the benchmark for testing retrievers. Under normal circumstances, a straight line is the shortest distance and thereby the quickest route between two points.

Chance,

Thank you for the generous invite as your guest to the Southern Flight this March. May I take a raincheck perhaps for another year or time? My health conditions require that I stay in my close area. I am sure that I would enjoy your company, the sight seeing, and the dogs.

Again, I plead ingnorance of HRC philosophy and rules. I think that it has been Thomas Jefferson that has been quoted as saying " Democracy is nothing more than mob rule where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the 49%". If the majority thinks that the game rules should be changed then I would think it would be at least appropriate to have the rules changed before the dog is run...not change the written rules when the dog and handler are at the line, perhaps because it is their humble opinion that it should be this way or that. For example, if in the rules it might say that marks will not be more than 100yds long; and then the judges set up a test that has 150yd marks in the scenario. Not Kosher. I think that perhaps judges from other hunt test venues might be familiar with a particular organization's rules (AKC, NAHRA, don't know about HRC) and are judging by thosse rules or standards and not the rules of the venue they are judging.

As for "normal circumstances" being the quickest route between two points for a blind retrieve, probably so where you hunt, but I would have to allow more latitude for the areas I and others hunt. If you were to hunt the Chiliquin River (Oregon) in November as I have. If your dog would not run the bank, Your dog would not have a chance (no pun intended ) to retrieve the bird if it landed across the river upstream. The river is flowing much faster than your dog can swim. Your dog would die of hypothermia before he could even think about retrieving that duck. That is not even talking about multiple marks that are floating down the river as normal circumstances when shooting the Chiliquin.

Tule Lake, CA where I hunt just about every season because there are lots of ducks and the season opens up to two weeks earlier than the section of CA where I am from. Dense tules are normally 6 to 10 feetall, many times it is better to handle the dog around those dense tule patches and not lose sight of your dog as you handle.

If you are hunting in the edge of a small pond (perhaps only about 100yds lightly frozen ponds where the ice is around 1/4 thick in the winter. Is it better to have the dog swim and try to crack the ice for every blind (or mark) you and your buddy knock down and risk hypothermia or drowning. Or is it better for the dog to run the bank and stay warm most of the way then cut in to get the duck?

My buddy and I have been hunting waterfowl together for over 35 years. I am not making this stuff up. I have seen frquently that if the blind is out past 60 yards, it is not uncommon to have to "cheat" (if you would like to call it that) the line because of practicality.

I suspect what is happening partly is that the number of hunt tests in my area are diminishing. The handlers are going to tests from both AKC and NAHRA because they are not that many in either. If HRC were here I bet there are some that would run that, too because they like the sport so much. I started hunt testing in the late 80's and have enjoyed myself in the sport a lot. Judges from other hunt test venues think things should be different on how a master/senior dog should be required to do and sometimes get the rules mixed up or think that in their opinion that they can somehow change the rules by setting up tests or judging to influence the way "things ought to be". Bless their hearts as they are volenteering their time and in our area it is tough for some clubs to get help to host a hunt test.

But I think my passion is still for the upland and waterfowl hunting that my buddy and I do together. That said I still avidly train my new two labs and enjoy local hunt tests and visit with friends there.

I think that mainly there are just preferences. Such as in the beginning, NAHRA judges could require the handler to select which order to pick up the marks in senior division. Now, that option which I thought was practical and useful) is no longer available to test the dog. I still train my dogs to select, but I'm not throwing a tizzy that NAHRA does not test for selection. Just that in my hunting experience, it is good to pick up the cripples that might get away before retrieving the dead ducks. Others might think that it is not worth the trouble or usefulness in training for selection.

And yes, I can tell my almost 5 yo dog to run a straight line as well as tell him to run the bank to the mark or blind or tell him to exit the water and run back by land on the return.