Running Blind Retrieves

[B3]

We're in need of some training talk around this place. Anyone want to share some tips on how you approach a blind retrieve in training and/or in a test?

Bill

[dukdawgn]

I walk out in a field about 100 steps, stab a blind pole into the ground, kick it over on an angle, cover most of it with some hay, then call for a test dog.

[GulfCoast]

First thing I do is ask myself "Where is the wind?" Then, "Where is any suction?" Then, "what is there to make the dog flare?" Then, "Is there anyplace out there I can lose sight of my dog while she heads for the next zipcode since she is out of sight?" All of those things are red flag spots for me, and I figure even if everything goes right, I may need a safety whistle at those spots. Then I line the dog up with all that in mind, and favoring the right hand side of the alley (unless there is a good reason not to do that), say a lil prayer and say "Dead bird, Right there (if she is locked right) and "Back." I pick a location where I want my "tee shot" (initial line) to end up, my fairway shot (middle) and my "approach shot" (end) and try and handle to hit those points. I want the dog a wee bit on the downwind side of the "approach shot" if I can do it.

Sometimes this works well, and sometimes it all implodes in spectacular fashion.

I look forward to learning how our accomplished trainers on here approach things!

[B3]

Nice post GC........do you do anything before you run to get in the dogs head so to speak? I like the analogy of the tee shot on the initial line.

Bill.......who after another week at Lardy camp is into the "zen" and the art of running dogs

[GulfCoast]

I have a set routine of how I get her out of the box to "try" and get control established before we leave the tailgate. Travis taught me to do the same thing coming out of the holding blind, every time. Farmer told me to improve our blinds we need to clean up line manners some, and get a crisper sit. He says dogs qualify at HT's, and win or lose FT's within 10 feet of the line. The more I think about it, the more I think he is probably right, and my OB that I thought was OK really sucks compared the Lardy/Farmer standard. Back to the drawing board. Can I please start my dog over?

[B3]

If dog doesn't seem like a team player at the line, get him "off his feet" by re-heeling and re-sitting and set him up again......another tip I picked up to establish control.

Bill

[gator]

bill, not to be a butt, but i tend to walk up, line up the dog and say.............back.

for me, trying to complicate a complicated task, tends to make the task complicated......gator

[lilwhitelie]

HUMMMMMM how bout BACK TO THE GAS STATION there ol buddy ol pal gator.......

[Meeka]

I dont know a bunch but I have had a chance to see a bunch of handlers run blinds in seasoned. And you see a lot of good and a lot of bad, and the difference between say a pro trainer and a "seasoned" handler is like night and day. I think seasoned handlers would do well to read the approach above by B3 and others surely to follow and try to take that to the hunt test. By that I mean that the handler should know that a blind pole "just right out there 40-60 yards" is in that location for a reason and that there will be some things there that will influence all but the best dogs that day. Those things are called factors and they will require most dogs to be stopped and cast in a different direction.

Now there's three ways to figure out what the factors are and what the dogs will naturally do. You can have run a bunch of dogs in different places before to get experience, or you can cozy up to the pro or experienced handler and keep your ears open, or you can watch the first 5 dogs run.

The best handlers and best dogs often run early. If you watch the first 5 dogs run, watch from up as close as you can. And do your watching before the dog is ever cast off the line. Watch the dog's head as it approaches the line. Watch the first thing it looks at after the handler sits the dogs. Then you battle that when you line your dog up. If your line work is strong you have something to battle the dog that looks somewhere other than the line to the blind - some type of cue. Have your whistle in our mouth and blow it as soon as your dog shows influence of that factor.

Then figure out where the dog can get into trouble, bad trouble - like cover where you cant see your dog well. If your dog gets in there, number one you can't see him and he can't see you and number two, he's probably hunting and the blind is over with and he will blow your whistles and casts off. Its a no brainer, but stay OUT OF TROUBLE. Stop the dog before he gets into trouble. And if he is in the trouble, get him out; trying to cast to a bird from trouble doesn't work well some times.

And the third most important thing I can think of is that the hunting the bird at the end of the blind that we do throughout the hunting season does not work well in a test. Remember the judges want you to show control. If you want to know how blind work is judged, take in a judges and handlers seminar, its for handlers too!

Now a good problem to have is what if my dog is sent and goes straight to the blind, do I have to stop him to show "control". Answer - no, your first cast took the dog straight to the bird, that's pretty good control.

[Copiah Creek]

Heck Bill just get skippyj to run Lucy ,,,,,,blind is picked up now on to marks

[Jeff]

For me I do many of the above things when I am running a test. The biggest is NOT saying well my dog won't do that. Meaning that if 10 other dogs do something squirrely on a blind you can bet yours will too. So expect problems and just like watching a guy in front of you put on your line, do the same with other dogs.

Next for me the single most important thing to me in a test/mark/blind is to know my dogs. When I line them up, I can normally have a reasonably decent idea what's going to come next. For example a small puddle or brush50 yds in front of my younger dog, and if she's looking there first, shes going to want to go there. So I am ready for a whistle to stop her before she ever gets a chance to get "lost" in said brush. To me there are just little things that my dogs do that help me to figure out a lot of the time whats coming. Not saying that all the time what's coming next is right, just what's coming. Of course this isn't to say I have ESP, this doesn't work all the time, but it helps me.

Lastly in a test especially, I try and keep my dogs VERY tight to a line I want them on. I would rather blow 12 whistles on a 150 yard blind, but control my dog the entire way to the bird than to let them off line a little more and loose control. I live by the rule that 3 overs during a blind and I have handled poorly as my dog has gotten too far off line.

[B3]

cc,

I'll soon be running the next best thing to Lucy..........that would be Lucy pup

Bill

[stumpjumper]

cc,

I'll soon be running the next best thing to Lucy..........that would be Lucy pup

Bill

Those should be some nice pups Bill I need some help with Q training when you have a training day again.

[B3]

my OB that I thought was OK really sucks compared the Lardy/Farmer standard.


A blind retrieve is nothing more than obedience, so if he's not obedient at your feet he won't be obedient casting away from that old suction at 100 yds.

Maybe too simplistic in my view,

Bill

[Duck Chaser]

Bill, you could at least use " ", or "so-n-so said".

A blind retrieve is nothing more than obedience, so if he's not obedient at your feet he won't be obedient casting away from that old suction at 100 yds.

Maybe too simplistic in my view,

maybe, depending on the dog/level of blind.. You need the ob/control to cast off the suction, if you have to cast off of it... but, I don't think you can "obedience" a dog to carry an initial line tight backside a poison bird flyer station, any more than you can force a dog to check down. No big suprise that ob is a battle when you mix hi bred young dogs, limited training/experience, the test environment/set-ups and demand "control". On the bright side (not neccessarily for the dogs), you'll come out to the good on most anything HT related with a fundamental type response.

If dog doesn't seem like a team player at the line, get him "off his feet" by re-heeling and re-sitting and set him up again......another tip I picked up to establish control.

I had this noted for PB blinds, if you don't re-heel to the opposite side.. (during the backside and under arc drill). See, I didn't just copy all your notes. hehe

I dunno what stressed out B3 more last week.., handling Stinger in front of the Lardy camp, or me walking out the first morning wearing the complimentry shower cap from the motel and threatening to intro myself as Mrs. B3.