Nanih Waiya drained. DW and DU's compared responses:

[Seymore]

I saw a DU interview once where a DU executive in Canada was being asked about something similar in their area. A hunting area was in jeoparday and the executive was being asked what DU was going to do about it. The executive circled the wagons and never answered the questions directly. Guy interviewing got pizzed off and put him on the spot. The DU executive said it was not their mandate to provide for hunting waterfowl. Their mandate was the conservation of wetlands.

So their main source of revenue is from waterfowl hunters, but, their concern is not for waterfowl hunting. Wish I could remember the specifics of that interview and look it up. Saw it a few years ago when the DU v. DW debate was raging hot and heavy.

[MSDawg870]

I saw a DU interview once where a DU executive in Canada was being asked about something similar in their area. A hunting area was in jeoparday and the executive was being asked what DU was going to do about it. The executive circled the wagons and never answered the questions directly. Guy interviewing got pizzed off and put him on the spot. The DU executive said it was not their mandate to provide for hunting waterfowl. Their mandate was the conservation of wetlands.

So their main source of revenue is from waterfowl hunters, but, their concern is not for waterfowl hunting. Wish I could remember the specifics of that interview and look it up. Saw it a few years ago when the DU v. DW debate was raging hot and heavy.

Dad has always said, "DU is for the ducks, not the duck hunters."

True, but without duck producing habitat conserved by DU, duck hunters wouldn't have a whole lot to shoot at.

[BRHC Manager]

We can talk DU vs. DW until we are blue in the face or six feet under. Fact is that we- as duck hunters- need both DU and DW and that we- as duck hunters- need to give back more than we are currently giving back in a lot of ways. This is simple: belong to DU and DW, volunteer to work a committee for one organization one year and the other the next year.

But let's break down the Nanih Waiya situation a little further.

Why was the swamp silting in? Agriculture on nearby land. Sound familiar? Can you say Hillside? Can you say Deep Bayou at Panther Swamp?

Hunters must unite with enviros and certain farm interests to create a framework where farmers can make reasonable profits with limited risk while the environment is protected. Fact is that every farm field in America should have a filter strip of vegetation around it to trap the silt and chemical runoff from leaving that field. Farmers should be paid for providing this environmental service to society rather than having this mandated to them.

Who would be against such a system? The primary beneficiaries of the current system of course. ADM, Bunge, Cargill, Monsanto, etc. Same as it ever was. Not to that a lot of the dredge it, channelize it and dam it crowd over at the Corps of Engineers would be out of a job if rivers, streams and reservoirs were not silting in.

Incidentally, filter strips around every field would be a heck of a deal for recovery of bobwhite quail in the Deep South and would make pretty good nesting cover in the prairies. This is coming via CRP but it is voluntary. It needs to be mandatory and money needs to be paid to farmers as a result.

[jdbuckshot]

DU and Delta have there place, and its not fighting a battle against the state that it cannot win.

there is alot more to this problem than a few drainage ditches silting in, and some hardwoods being flooded out and killed. It comes down to politics. The deer hunters in this area dont have access to hunt it, and think it stupid to have hundreds of acres of water where there could be deer habitat. I garuntee you that if you ask the nanih Waiya WMA Manager that he will not like what has happened. But hes doing what he's told. by july they will have roads built into that place because deer hunters complained enough to the right people, and are getting what they want, and at the wildifes expense. wood duck nesting habitat will be lost! gators, owls, snakes, frogs, tons of other wildlife will be sacrificed for "bottem land hardwood restoration" AKA more acres for deer hunter to hunt on!

Somebody should be held accountable, and somebody should be asked, and what expense to our natural resource is this project being done?


this is from an inside source, so say what you want. if they wanted to fix the silting problem the would have dug it out!


JD

[greenheadgrimreaper]

I'm still working on it got a couple important phone calls that are SUPPOSED to be coming in tomorrow. I'm through dealing with the wildlife division as I have heard from several inside sources that there is alot of "cover my a**" stuff going on.

The ultimate goal of this thread was to bring attention to the subject matter and I knew the topic would do the trick. I was absolutely correct. A couple of "old wise men" spouted off, as expected, to something that they conjured up as the intended subject matter. Real wise men they are. The main need of doing something to combat this is getting the info to the public. I am sick of standing aside and watching and not acting. It's time to start practicing what we teach and by God, that's what I aim to do save the marsh or not.

On a side note, I found very interesting that deer hunters have never set foot in that area because they knew it was covered in water. Yet the week of the drainage there were several stands in the actual marsh.

And they say waterfowlers are the ones that bitch and moan...

[duckkiller]

DU and Delta have there place, and its not fighting a battle against the state that it cannot win.

there is alot more to this problem than a few drainage ditches silting in, and some hardwoods being flooded out and killed. It comes down to politics. The deer hunters in this area dont have access to hunt it, and think it stupid to have hundreds of acres of water where there could be deer habitat. I garuntee you that if you ask the nanih Waiya WMA Manager that he will not like what has happened. But hes doing what he's told. by july they will have roads built into that place because deer hunters complained enough to the right people, and are getting what they want, and at the wildifes expense. wood duck nesting habitat will be lost! gators, owls, snakes, frogs, tons of other wildlife will be sacrificed for "bottem land hardwood restoration" AKA more acres for deer hunter to hunt on!

Somebody should be held accountable, and somebody should be asked, and what expense to our natural resource is this project being done?


this is from an inside source, so say what you want. if they wanted to fix the silting problem the would have dug it out!


JD

Not to mention the two(2) pairs of Bald Eagles that are now gone. Oh what a pretty site they were to. I think I got a few pics of one pair and a nest here somwhere. I will post it up when I find it.

[Skip OK]

Did you ever get a reply about this from Delta?

From the first post what I got was:

1. from DU-- This isn't our project; here is the guy you need to talk to.

2. from DW-- I will talk to one of our biologists and get back to you.

Of those two responses, the first one at least had SOME beneficial information. The Delta response did not, unless there were further communication

For the record, I have served on both the DU and the DW state committees in Oklahoma, and am finishing out a term as DU state chairman.

Both groups have their strengths and weaknesses, but it is not at all fair to blame one because their response to an inquiry wasn't friendly enough for you; and THAT is about the only difference I can see.

[Skip OK]

Don't need two of these.

[bigwater]

i'm with you guys

[Money]

i'm with you guys

[Drakeshead]

I thought this had already been covered:

My name is Chad Manlove and I work for Ducks Unlimited in Jackson, MS. I've talked with Kevin Brunke, Migratory Game Biologist with the MDWFP. Nanih Waiya WMA is owned by the U.S. ARmy Corps of Engineers and managed for wildlife by MDWFP. It was originally purchased to mitigate bottomland hardwood loss at another site. Within the past couple of years, the drainage ditch leading out of the swamp became silted in from near agricultural field run-off. As a result, standing water killed many hardwood trees on the area. The decision was made to drain the swamp this fall in order to restore the area to hardwoods. This was a WETLANDS RESTORATION decision. Hardwood seedlings must be planted in winter months under dry conditions. They are trying to restore the site, not piss-off duck hunters. In fact, the MDWFP has been aggressively pursuing additonal hunting opportunities for waterfowlers across the state. DU and MDWFP have a very good working relationship. Both groups are concerned about wetlands and waterfowl conservaiton, as well as increased hunting opporuntites. Now, is not the time to quit on DU or MDWFP.

Robert, I believe I returned your message. After I did return your call, you informed me that you talked with Jeff about the project and knew why it was being done. If you are referring to another message you left, I apologize because I never saw it. I am not in the office much this time of year, but if I have a message on my desk, I return the call. I have not been able to make it to the area yet because every time I had a chance, it has been flooded this season.

To say we do not care about areas other than draw hunt areas in the delta is large misstatement. You may be hearing a lot about these areas now, because we are putting out information on them on our website and because some are killing a nice pile of ducks. You may also be hearing more about projects in the Delta because that is where we currently have funding opportunities to do wetland enhancement work. The purchase of Howard Miller WMA allowed us to use those funds as match to receive federal funding for wetland habitat work in the Delta. Because of this federal funding, duck hunters will have another WMA to hunt within the next few years. We have a large list of projects identified across the state, but it just takes time and money to slowly complete these projects one by one.

I understand your frustration with the mitigation project at Nanih Waiya. If I duck hunted that particular wetland, I would be frustrated too. However, the bottom line is the area is owned by the Corps as a mitigation site for bottomland hardwoods. The site was drained to replant hardwoods in an area that they were destroyed due to prolonged flooding caused by altered hydrology from the silted drainage ditch and beaver activity. Jeff told me this is what he told you, so to come on here and say we don’t give a damn is false. The sole reason for the existence of this WMA is for bottomland hardwood mitigation and protection, if it wasn’t for this need, the WMA would have never been bought by the Corps and opened to the public. The Mobile district of the Corps has ultimate say over the management of this WMA. If you think something is not on the up-and-up, I suggest you contact them if you want to go to the top. Over the past couple years, we have been working with Larry and others to improve waterfowl management on Nanih Waiya where he has access. Active waterfowl management has not occurred on this WMA for some time and he is making good progress at improving habitat on the area. When funding becomes available we hope to do enhancements on the Mayhaw pond and other areas that have slowly degraded over the years and are poor sites for bottomland hardwood restoration.

DU or DW have no say on how WMAs are managed in this or any state. Blaming them for this project is a waste of time and effort. We work with both organizations to improve wetland habitat and waterfowl populations and I highly recommend all duck hunters to do the same. If you think we are damaging wetlands in a negative way, the Corps of engineers is the entity to call because they have jurisdiction over wetlands (See the links for contact information http://www.mvk.usace.army.mil/ or http://www.sam.usace.army.mil/). If you don’t agree with how something is managed on our WMAs you can write letters to our Chief of Wildlife at 1505 Eastover Drive, Jackson, MS 39211. If you want to talk about waterfowl or wetland management on public or private lands, you can call me at 601-432-2079. I’ll be in the office most of the day tomorrow.

Again, if a message was lost in the shuffle, I'm sorry.

I hope I covered all of the bases, because this will be my only post on this subject.

Kevin Brunke

[rustypjr]

After talking with Jeff and a few others. The ones responsible for this told me that what they are doing should help the ducks in the long run. they said that they did drain it but it has had water in it for a few months now (because of the rain) Jeff said he has been inther 3 times a week in a canoe. They also said that what the ducks are eating in there was getting scarce and that if they did not drain it there could be no undergrowth or anything. They said that they hope to replant some things and also let mother nature renew her food source also. They all are convinced that what they are doing is right for not only the ducks and the wetlands but also for the area. After speaking with them what they are doing made since to me. Jsut my .02

[greenheadgrimreaper]

Jeff and I had another long talk on the phone last week. He is the only one that hasn't given me the run around. Kudos to him. We will just see what happens next year. Jeff is a brilliant guy and throughout the whole process I made it clear that we knew he was doing his job. We weren't trying to "bust his balls" for lack of a better phrase.

Skip I put the post up for you to do what you did. Make your own assumptions about the replies. It wasn't so much about the replies back as the interest I knew the title would get, and in turn bring light to the subject matter. If I name my post " Midget Gangsters" I would probably get alot more hits than if it said something less interesting. Do you smell what I'm steppin' in? The strategy worked too. What did I think DU or DW would do? Absolutely nothing. They aren't obligated to. Do I look like I was born yesterday? A couple of blow hards right at first apparently thought so. Haven't heard back from them.

I feel confident knowing I spoke up about something I am passionate about and, at least, was heard. Once again kudos to the MDWFP it's one of the few government sectors where they still listen to the folks. It's been alot of support and interest with the issue and that's good. People need to speak up and ask questions. That's all we were doing, asking questions.

MDWFP admittedly said that they did a crappy job of managing the problem back years ago. Now as a result you have a problem 10x bigger that requires draining the marsh altogether. I trust Jeff and his judgement and we'll see what the outcome is. He has the degree, not me. I can honestly say I have a bit more peace about myself knowing myself and others did what we could do. The MDWFP cannot do a thing simply because they just manage the COE land and the legal obligation to utilize the property for bottomland mitigation is ever-present.

Am I no longer worried about the outcome? Of course I am. I still have some nervous reservations about next year's season. I fear a major drop in bird numbers. Maybe so, maybe not. However a marsh that's been imprinted on for 40 years by waterfowl and was a main roosting spot for thousands of birds may or may not be there next year. I honestly don't know where they will relocate due to lack of habitat. But who knows, time will tell. It's going to be feast or famine for sure.

BTW I have noticed in the past when someone gets on here and complains about a wildlife law, etc. that a main response is get off the computer and call somebody instead of complaining where it doesn't count. I agree, however after a month of phone calls all over the state, as well as North Dakota, Maryland, and Mobile; I have discovered this is a site that is monitored by alot of folks. I think it's safe to say using the site along with phone calls and emails is a good way to get someone's attention, if need be. I thought it was interesting though, that our corner of the web is so well known.

[mshunter77]

I just finished reading all of the post on this thread. First of all I believe that if the land was originally for hardwood restoration, then draining it is the right thing to do, IF they actually keep up with it over the long run and make sure the same thing does not happen. It will be pointless to drain it, just for the young hardwoods to become flooded 5 years down the road or eaten up by beavers or nutria rats. Also the area can still be a wetland with out having several feet of standing water all year. Also as some others said if it is done right this could be even better for the ducks in the long run, you may have to sacrifice 5 years of so but wouldn't you rather do that and know that it would be better in the long run. This is where I think that DU, DW, and the mdwfp come in. They should try and work with COE to ensure that the area is just not completely flood again killing off all of the vegetation. If you have no vegetation then there will be no food for the ducks, so there would be no need in having the water there. If they do it right and drain it and do replant the hardwoods and get them a good start then down the road they could flood it part of the year and still have good duck habitat and still have bottomland hardwood restoration. The problem is that it will probably just be a quick fix for the COE, so they can say they are working for the hardwood restoration and they will leave it alone after that. Just to be clear I am not bashing anyone or taking any sides, I just think there are a lot of different variables to this and if everyone steps back and takes a look at it and they do it right and maintain it, they could make almost everyone happy.

[greenheadgrimreaper]

Good point MShhunter there are a few problems, and obviously I don't expect you to know it because I haven't mentioned it. It is a man made problem. I have already been told that the likelihood of doing any type of seasonal flooding is out of the question. Simply because it's not natural. Jeff told me alot of your refuges are getting away from seasonal greentree flooding because biologist are finding out the stagnant water is damaging the trees. Once again, I'll take his word for it he knows better than I. One thing that I was told was that parts of the place will never grow hardwoods due to being under water for so long. So I ask, if we keep having what seems to be the normal winter, dry and warm, what good will a dry, overgrown bullgrass/willow thicket do? And the beaver issue is one I have stressed throughout the process of talking with folks. If the beavers can still maintain some back water and stay in the area then I really don't know how well the regeneration effort will be. I am like you when I wonder if it has to be all or nothing, but by the sound of it Jeff and the MDWFP have their hands tied to do the job and the COE is probably not going to budge. John Devney was told that the MDWFP admittedly said they did a poor job on communicating to the folks what was being done. I totally agree. When the local guys go to a marsh opening week that in literally two weeks time was drained; their is a shock factor to say the least. All of our lives would have been made easier if we we're notified beforehand. I think anyone would agree with that. The one thing I do know is that no matter what, if a waterfowler saw the before and after effects it would be pure reflex to say, do we HAVE to do this?

Rusty I just took notice to your post and honestly...there ain't nothing more or nothing less in that swamp food wise than there ever has been. It never has had alot of really attractive food sources, it's the roosting aspect that's so important. I'm no scientist, but I know that for a fact. Also the comment about planting seems contradictory to what I was told. Somewhere along the lines of planting it would be near impossible, I don't want to misquote anyone though. And also I have been in there and out on the canal with my canoe a dozen or so times, and the main reason for the water holding in the marsh is because downstream there is a log jam 150 yards long holding back all the water. It really is one big cluster**** and the mitigation dudes got their work cut out for them. What they are doing is right...legally speaking. What they are doing for the ducks is taking away a roosting place for a huge chunk of the birds that use winston and neshoba county as a winter home. BUT, Jeff is doing what he's told, and that's to manage the resource to the best of his skills and knowledge. And that's what he has that we don't, knowledge of the subject matter. I do, however, have the knowledge of hunting the area my whole life. I predict a major change in flight patterns and bird numbers, at least on the winston county side next year if it's dry. They have to do something to save more hardwoods from dying due to an expanding swamp. Which is due to bad management. But dammit I hate to see it go.