Bush's Legacy

[Deltamud77]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/meltdown_autos

I am scared just like the rest of you guys about Obama. But in keeping things honest and all on the table, the massive socialization/nationalization of the country started with Bush. I have tried to support Bush throughout his tenure and have given him the benefit of the doubt more times than I should have, but that is finished.

I think that Bush has been the worst president in US history...even worse that Carter. Carter was an idiot, but his mistakes could be corrected. Nationalizing this nation cannot be fixed in my opinion (just like FDRs new deal) and that is what has happened on Bush's watch. Many of the things we fear from Obama have already taken place in the last 6 months under Bush. Amazingly, we as a nation are allowing the socialist to take our great country from us without so much as a wimper.

I am not a conspiracy guy, but it seems as though there is no longer a difference in the Republican leadership and the democratic party as a whole. It is almost as if they are privately in all of this together pushing for a globalized socialist style government.

[DoubleBandMS]

Respectfully Deltamud, I think your opinion is skewed by the media. The Liberal media in general is against president Bush. The US government is LOANING the auto industry 17Billion. So What. Everyone would be whining and moaning if they all went into a restructuring period of bankruptsy and were out of work. The government has taken a non voting equity interest in some of the Nations financial institutions. Does this really bother you that much. The alternative is having our financial system falter. What do all of you propose that are so much smarter than President Bush and his administration? Please let me know. The man has had one of the hardest Presidential terms ever. We are at war and in a recession. It is so easy to sit back and gripe, listening to what the idiots that write this crap in the newspaper are saying. We have not had any major terrorist attack since 9/11, but that is just because the terrorist didn't want to, Right? Stop reading the junk in the papers. I stand behind THE President and always have. I do not agree with everything he has done, but know he is a moral and good human being. If you are complaining now, just wait until this other guy takes over.

[RebelYelp]

9/11; the war on terror (in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as other places);Katrina, Rita; the emergence of china; this recession, yea, we're in one now, but everybody seems to forget that 2 years ago, they had more $$ and the economy was stronger than it has ever been...; and having a national media that crucifies you for every decision you make... i think we'll look back 20 years from now and see that it wasn't so bad, and that he was actually a damn good president....

[DoubleBandMS]

One last thought and i'll shut up, Why is it OK for the government to GIVE my tax money to people on welfare but not ok to LOAN to thousands of hard working people who actually contribute to the tax pool. The government has spent trillions on welfare. Dont want to help the people who work and contribute. As for me, i'm about to load up my truck with guns, fill up with 1.41 a gallon gas, hunt and enjoy the holidays in a free country. So easy to complain about but beats the hell out of anywhere else.

[Deltamud77]

One last thought and i'll shut up, Why is it OK for the government to GIVE my tax money to people on welfare but not ok to LOAN to thousands of hard working people who actually contribute to the tax pool. The government has spent trillions on welfare. Dont want to help the people who work and contribute. As for me, i'm about to load up my truck with guns, fill up with 1.41 a gallon gas, hunt and enjoy the holidays in a free country. So easy to complain about but beats the hell out of anywhere else.

I agree with that. However, as to your first post, part of Bush's proposed loan to bailout the auto companies entails ownership interest in the companies. This is why Ford has said no thanks. As to the banks, why would the government even mention an ownership interest if it could not assert control, whether there are voting rights or not.

It is a given that Bush has had a tough go of it with 9/11, Katrina, Rita, recession, etc., but socialism is not the answer.

[TODO]

If you think Bush has been a damn good president your living in la la land. Im not sayin he was the worst in history but there were defintily some things that could have been done differently.

[tombstone]

I think if we survive the 4 yrs ahead, we will beg for 8 more yrs of George or even Bill. I hope I am wrong.

[RebelYelp]

If you think Bush has been a damn good president your living in la la land. Im not sayin he was the worst in history but there were defintily some things that could have been done differently.

the same could be said for every president we've had.... i didn't say he was great, excellent, or anything close, i said damn good.... ie. in the top 50 percentile... I don't think he's been anywhere near our greatest president, but i also don't think he's nearly as bad as how many want to make him out (ie. things are never as good, nor as bad as people make them seem).. his two biggest hiccups are the war in iraq, which congress approved; and the "recession"... right now, the DJI sits in the mid to upper 8000's... right around the average during the clinton "boom" years.. how did we ever survive 10 years ago? the auto manufacturer's and their employees dug their own graves; let em file chapter 11, restructure, kick the unions to the curb, and have the chance to be profitable again, ie. Nissan, toyota, honda, etc...

[cwink]

Bush has routinely called himself a compassionate conservative.. And that he feels we are the most prosperous nation in history and it is our duty to help those with less than us. To that end he has given more money, aid and help to more people than any other president in history. Think about all the aid he has given to Africa, all the aid to those from the Sunami and Earthquakes trying to give the Iraquis freedom, and then all he has spent helping out the people of Katrina and Rita and now he his trying to help everyone else in these bailouts. I think his intentions are good, but you can't help everyone or those who don't have the desire to help themselves. There such a thing as being to compassiontate, especially when what your giving is not yours to give..

I think his strongest point was keeping us safe after 9/11

[Deltamud77]

Bush has routinely called himself a compassionate conservative.. And that he feels we are the most prosperous nation in history and it is our duty to help those with less than us. To that end he has given more money, aid and help to more people than any other president in history. Think about all the aid he has given to Africa, all the aid to those from the Sunami and Earthquakes trying to give the Iraquis freedom, and then all he has spent helping out the people of Katrina and Rita and now he his trying to help everyone else in these bailouts. I think his intentions are good, but you can't help everyone or those who don't have the desire to help themselves. There such a thing as being to compassiontate, especially when what your giving is not yours to give..

I think his strongest point was keeping us safe after 9/11

I think keeping us safe since 9/11 has been amazing. I actually think that the war in Iraq has been one of the most successful military affairs in recent history, given what we are up against. However, the financial side of his presidency has restructured the landscape of America in view of government. It has been restructured to the exent that we are a very far cry from the original intent of our forefathers. I believe that Obama's presidency will be even worse and every conservative including Bush should have recognized that too.

With that being said, Bush should not be teeing it up for Obama and the Dem Congress to hit a long drive even deeper into socialism.

Bottomline is this, the automakers have made their bed by falling prey to the demands of the unions. The union workers are big boys and girls and supported the unions. Nobody put a gun to their head. You make your bed, you lie in it, period. If I somehow made my employer pay me a salary that I should know would make the business run bad and potentially end said business, then I get what is coming to me.

They should restructure just like any other company. At the very most, the government should give them a temporary line of credit, but under no circumstances does the federal government have any business whatsoever in being a part of a private company. The demand the government should make is a restructured deal with the UAW and the auto companies. As leverage, revoke their corporate status if they fail to do this.

[Drakeshead]

Government loaning money to the auto industry is nothing new. Just ask the mastermind behind the mini-van, Lee Iaccoca. In 1979 he took out a 10 year government guaranteed loan to keep Chrysler/Dodge for going out of business and paid it all back in five years.

[jacksbuddy]

it seems as though there is no longer a difference in the Republican leadership and the democratic party as a whole. It is almost as if they are privately in all of this together pushing for a globalized socialist style government.

IMHO, this is the most accurate thing you have said. Let's face it. Congress is blaming Bush, and the White house has been blaming Congress. The media as a whole is so left leaning that they can't see straight, so they are being blatantly anti-republican and blasting Bush some more. And what media outlets that aren't bleeding hearts, are such staunch republicans that their venom against democrats can make Stalin look like a teddy bear.

The fact is that there is both good and bad on both sides of the 'isle'. There is enough blame to go around to everybody involved on every subject that has come on 'the news'. And to be perfectly honest, I do not see where these current actions are going to solve any problem. I don't think the economic stimulous package we got last summer helped the nation. And, I don't think these bailouts are going to solve the problems either. All that I see so far is that good money is being thrown after bad, with no system in place to ensure that the taxpayer is protected. (They've even as much as admitted this in the news after the first round of bailouts to financial institutions.) Meanwhile, the bill that is going to have to be paid keeps going up.

What is the answer? My opinion is that these big companies should sink or swim. Why should they get special help from Uncle Sam? They have already proven that they will use any loop-hole they can to get away with greed (read - Hughes Industries earlier this year). The small investor has continually gotten the shaft through these actions, and the government isn't doing a d@m thing to help them.

You want to help the economy? Shut down these inscrupulous businesses, and file RICO charges on upper management. If you do this, here is what would happen real quick -

Illegal aliens would leave, and take their families with them
Honest businesses would see an increase in sales due to the fact that the unscrupulous businesses are closed
Initially, prices would rise. However, the market would correct itself fairly quickly, and purchasing power would increase to match it.
Unemployment would decrease because of the filling of jobs vacated by the aforementioned criminals
Wages would increase due to the increased need of skilled labor
Schools would improve because our teachers will only need to instruct students by using English
Crime would decrease because we'd have the criminals in jail and their targeted victims deported to their home countries

I know that I've left a bunch of things out, but then again, this is only wishful thinking. It won't happen because our political leaders as a whole lack the intestinal fortitude to do what is truly best for the USA. Meanwhile, thank God Almighty that I have a government job, and the ability to be self-reliant.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. If I offended anyone - get over it. Thank you for allowing me to rant.

[Mark K]

Like someone mentioned before, would we be having this conversation 2-3 years ago? Nope - I looked back a couldn't find anything. Now what happened 2 years ago? Oh yeah, a new Congress was elected. And what kind of Congress do we have? Yep, Demos. Y'all do the math.

[Josey Wales]

worst president in the history of the USA...He will not be missed..

[MSDawg870]

Change is coming!!!!

It'll be a hell of a lot better the next 4 years!!!!

Change is coming!!!!