another question for the forum

[the doctor]

How many of you here believe in free will?

Been in a long discussion with a good friend he's for, I'm agin it???

what sayeth you?

the doc

[StraightUp]

"If anyone chooses to do God's will..." John 7.17niv

I can't explain it and maybe some are predestined(Paul, on the Damascus rd???), but I chose to believe when I heard the gospel on November 16, 1980.

So, I'm in the free will camp.

[Drakeshead]

I believe in free will.

Joshua 24:14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Joshua 24:20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

[cwink]

I believe it. If it did not exists then there would be no explantation for all my stupid decisions..

[the doctor]

so you have control over some aspects of your life and God has the rest?

the doc

[cwink]

so you have control over some aspects of your life and God has the rest?

the doc

I think God gives you paths to take. And you either take the right one or the wrong one.

[the doctor]

so He doesnt know which path you will take?

the doc

[StraightUp]

so you have control over some aspects of your life and God has the rest?

the doc

I have kids. I control/influence some things. At times they cast off my wishes and do their own thing. Many times they paid a great price for the poor decisions.

[StraightUp]

so He doesnt know which path you will take?

the doc

This is an age old "tail chasing" arguement. Most have their mind made up. I can argue from either side of the table. At the end of the day, I'm not willing to blame God for my sin.

[the doctor]

no one asking you to blame God for your sin...if your children cast off your wishes then you dont have complete control

the God I know has complete control and I agree that this is an age old discussion and while I am not asking to try and influence your mind God's absolute power and control are Biblical.

do we choose God or does He choose us?

the doc

[cwink]

so He doesnt know which path you will take?

the doc

This may rub a few people the wrong way. But in my mind (which is all I have to go on). If God knows the decisions we will make, then why would he give us free will. I think he has a destination for us planned out and that destination has many paths to it. Some more bumpy than others.

Last night my wife and I got into a discussion on why our Son died, why we chose to have my wife's tubes tied and then untied, and then why she had a tubal pregnancy last week that she had to have sugically removed.

Maybe he is suggesting to us that my wife's body can't have another child. Maybe if we had another one it would be my wife who lost her life. Maybe he is telling us we need to adopt. I don't know the answer.. But I do know that right now, the path to us having another child is extrememly bumpy.. So much so that we are thinking of taking another path.

Do I think God knows what we will do? Maybe, Maybe not. But I do think he knows what he wants us to do, we just need to learn how to read the signs. In this case he has presented us with obstacles. We have to choose how to handle them.

[the doctor]

Do I think God knows what we will do? Maybe, Maybe not. But I do think he knows what he wants us to do, we just need to learn how to read the signs. In this case he has presented us with obstacles. We have to choose how to handle them.

God knows all and is all, no "maybe's"

I dont think we possess any real control and what we think are our choices, our decisions, or things under our control are just part of God's perfect plan for us. He knows/knew before we decide or choose so how can it really be our choice?

I have not read the scritpure where God gives us free will, where is that cwink?

the doc

[Drakeshead]

If that is the case, then all of our decisions, either good or bad, would never have any repercussion as the decision for us to do such and act, either good or bad, was God's decision.

God gave us all life as well as the right to make a decision. Not only did he give us these same rights, but also the Angels as sin was not born in the Garden of Eden. No, sin was born in Heaven when Lucifer lashed out against God and made a decision, as well as other Angels, to go against God and His will.

[StraightUp]

doc, are you one of the chosen ones?

[cwink]

Do I think God knows what we will do? Maybe, Maybe not. But I do think he knows what he wants us to do, we just need to learn how to read the signs. In this case he has presented us with obstacles. We have to choose how to handle them.

God knows all and is all, no "maybe's"

I dont think we possess any real control and what we think are our choices, our decisions, or things under our control are just part of God's perfect plan for us. He knows/knew before we decide or choose so how can it really be our choice?

I have not read the scritpure where God gives us free will, where is that cwink?

the doc

What your saying is along the lines of predestination. If he makes all of our choices for us then we are destined for either Heaven or Hell based on his choosing.

I am not a scripture quoter, but God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple, the serpant tempted them and they chose the chose to eat it. They were presented with a choice, and they chose the wrong one. Because of that Women now have to endure the pain of labor. So if we don't have free will then you are saying God made Adam and Eve eat the apple, therefore God wanted women to have pain during child birth. This goes along with what Drakeshead was saying. If God contolled all of our decisions then why would God have reprecussions for our sins.