The great spinner debate continues......

[chopper30]

Management practice? The person that's going to shoot 3 small bucks is going to do it no matter the situation.... The people that kill hens are going to kill them over a mojo too.... People that shoot hens, don't hold out for green. People that kill little bucks don't hold out for big ones, otherwise they would have let the little ones walk and grow.

[cwink]

And Cwink , I think you make some very good points , it's not only the laws that need changing , it's the mind set of today's hunter that needs changing as well .

Thanks.. I would back the ban, just because I think it is easier to change the law than to change the hearts and minds of the hunters..

[duckguide357]

I hope that ya'lls opinions and concerns does not fall as deaf ears as it did here in Arkansas. The commissioners voted to lift the ban on spinners even after having three surveys done and two of the three were in favor of not bringing them back.

[RockBottom]

This is a NO SPIN ZONE

[Double R 2]

And Cwink , I think you make some very good points , it's not only the laws that need changing , it's the mind set of today's hunter that needs changing as well .

Thanks.. I would back the ban, just because I think it is easier to change the law than to change the hearts and minds of the hunters..

By George, I think he's got it! LOL

[MSDuckmen]

Management practice? The person that's going to shoot 3 small bucks is going to do it no matter the situation.... The people that kill hens are going to kill them over a mojo too.... People that shoot hens, don't hold out for green. People that kill little bucks don't hold out for big ones, otherwise they would have let the little ones walk and grow.

That same logic was used years ago on the deer population when it was illegal to shoot Doe's. Now we have the largest deer herd in the country outside of Texas. Now they tell us continually to take does. You must take more does.

It is my opinion that you are mixing apples and oranges. If you want that logic to stand then you would have to say those people that will only shoot a mature mallard duck and let the young ones fly is a better scenario. When the law states that it is four points or better for a legal buck when and who masterminded the 4/6/8 size as being unacceptable if it does not have some trophy spread? If a man could give a rats butt about the size of the antlers then why would he wait for an older deer to come along? Why would a man not prefer the young more tender deer over the old stank with larger antlers? Most people are out for a good deer but many don't pass up a legal young one to fill some self made ego. After all you can’t eat antlers, nor are you likely to hurt the deer population by shooting deer in an environment that is already over capacity. Growing antlers is not a management program it is an ego program. Managing the herd for harvest and health of herd is true management.
It has everything to do with people as you stated in your post. The big difference is that you will not affect the herd in your camp by killing legal deer you will however destroy imprinting from young ducks that fall victim to the spinner device. You can pass up hens till you are blue in the face but the numbers are still going to drop here because the north is going to cut them down before they get here. I seem to remember that for years the only people that didn't like the device were me and Benny. I took more crap from people on this forum, and the Refuge for dogging the use of these devices. Yet here we are some 10 years later sparking the same fires yet everyone seems to agree they are bad. They are only bad if you don't care how you kill a duck just as long as you can do it without having to put forth an effort to learn the art. I went back and looked at some old post dating back to 2001 on here and back to 1998 on the refuge with me telling people this is a bad device. Hammered time and again I was over this issue.
Let's see it was holier than thou, Great white duck hunter as just a couple names I can recall being labeled when I voice against these devices. Well now it is too late, they have been accepted and people in the south may as well get use to the ducks in the numbers you are now seeing them. The trend has been set and no way are the great hunters of north going to give up a tool that has enabled them to kill birds at a rate that Louisiana and Mississippi use to. There are even boys right here on this forum that would not be caught dead without one in their spread.

It is almost like saying you get what you ask for and in my opinion that is exactly what has happened. Arkansas did the right thing but the rest of this fine country thumbed their nose at them. Just try and make the spinners illegal and you'll see that fight has already been done. The north has won again but this time it was greed that destroyed the southern states. Wanting it their way. Easy. The north will never give up this device as it has changed them and to them this is now duck hunting and we are just a bunch of cry babies whining about not having the birds we once had.

Well if there is any consolation about the matter we have plenty of black birds to shoot. Maybe a black bird spinner can solve that problem too. Once we have managed to kill everything that walks, flies, crawls in the woods we'll have to take up golf and kill little white balls.

No one on this site hates it has come to this more than me. Over thirty years of my life has been devoted to waterfowl. However I at least have the memories of the thunder left by the birds gone by.

[Greenhead22]

How do you take more does when you don't have any to start with because meat hunters have been killing every one they see?

[MSDuckmen]

How do you take more does when you don't have any to start with because meat hunters have been killing every one they see?

It all has to do with where you hunt Greenhead. Not every part of this state is the same.
Here are a couple links to help you understand the deer herd here in Mississippi and where the strong holds are and where the weak point are. 2006 2007 deer program reports.

http://www.mdwfp.com/Level2/Wildlife/Game/Deer/Articles.asp?article=406
http://www.mdwfp.com/Level2/Wildlife/Game/Deer/pdf/2007DeerReport.pdf

It is not enough to base your opinions on personal feeling you have to read and understand the impact of the species on the local environment to determine what management practice you should adopt. I'm open to restrictive harvest in our camp if it deemed necessary to the health of the herd or numbers of deer harvested from year to year.

Not all camps can use the same principles nor can you always manage the same in different regions of the state.

[chopper30]

Are we trying to grow trophy greenheads duckman? Are there too many ducks for the food sources available? I'm just replying to Chad's post Dan and small bucks and hens are what he mentioned

[MSDuckmen]

Are we trying to grow trophy greenheads duckman? Are there too many ducks for the food sources available? I'm just replying to Chad's post Dan and small bucks and hens are what he mentioned

Yeah Chop I know that the Duck Commander Phil is wanting to grow his own trophy Greenheads.

The point I was trying to make Chop is that it is different. Why not shoot only Black ducks or only Pin tails as they seem to be more of a Trophy than Greenheads. There are no where near too many ducks for the food source.

I just never understood how people can compare Migratory birds to a local State deer herd.

Hope you have a good season this year.

[GordonGekko]

First, I am thrilled we were able to get past the elitist specter and name calling which previously clouded and prevented a thorough discussion of this topic.

I truly hate that some of us, myself in particular, are such slow learners. It would have been nice to be able to take the bull by the horns many years ago and exercise "an ounce of prevention" before spinning wing decoys became so entrenched in their use. But, as they say hindsight is 20/20. However, I know the situation can be corrected. It is certainly an uphill battle, but nothing in life worth doing is easy.

three11 and others; Double R 2, the waterfowler (Pat), and Bill Cooksey, have provided one of the most complete and well articulated synopses of the available facts about spinning wing decoys. They have condensed and synthesized the studies and numbers I have been looking at for the past few years, and those studies and numbers are the basis of my opposition to the continued use of spinning wing decoys.

I hope that this discussion has influenced those who were previously indifferent to the issue to re-examine their apathy, and possibly for others to take this opportunity to re-examine their positions. We have reached a crossroads for the waterfowl community, and it is important that on this and other issues we speak with a unified voice to express our concerns.

And Gordon we still love you..........................................

...and Duckaholic...I can't quite put my finger on it, but this creeps me out a little

[ACEINTHEHOLE]

I guess I should go ahead and make a confession to you guys. From reading on this board I know that I am a topwater. I came from a family that thought duck hunting was stupid. First duck I ever killed I was 9 years old, squirrel hunting and two ducks got up off the creek. I shot and somehow killed this really pretty bird with lots of colors. My grandpa told me them thangs aint no good to eat. In high shcool I though duck hunting was sitting on a bucket next to the pond right before dark and shooting a couple boxes of shells then tryin to scoop ducks out of the small pond with a long dip net and a john boat. I have only really started Hunting them in the past three years and I can say this as an outsider. This is the most unfriendly hunting sport there is. Most duck hunters do not want new people in the sport. Not willing to help new people. Don't even want to be seen with somebody new. They would rather sit back and make stabs at some guy tryin to learn a new sport. In thirty years I do not think many people will be worried about consevation, except you great old timers who are Duck hunting Gods in your own eyes.

The my granddaddy didn't use them argument does not hold water to me. You purist claiming this please send me the keys to your 4-wheelers, your fancy decoys, your super insulated waders, and for those of you who deer hunt I would like your climbing stands, fancy new scopes, trail cameras and all the other gadgets.

How about instead of alienating people on the internet you invite them on a hunt and show them really how to do it. I for one am gonna keep hunting and making friends cause thats what it is about for me. I can give proof it aint about killing ducks. Sorry for the long post

Sincerly,
Topwater of the Year

[GordonGekko]

Well, Ace, just when I thought everyone was beginning to realize this isn't about elitist arguments, hunting style, experience, or labels. This is a legitimate concern about an issue which could be one of the most silently devistating forces for migratory patterns and waterfowl populations.

In thirty years I do not think many people will be worried about consevation, except you great old timers who are Duck hunting Gods in your own eyes.

Think about it this way, based on all the facts we have so far, in thirty years duckhunting in the south may be completely non-existent, and you will be correct nobody will be worried about conservation because there will be no ducks here. Can you really afford to take that chance with the sport you love? Can you afford to look a 9 year old in the eye and say, I would love to take you hunting, but the ducks don't come here anymore?

I know it is difficult to do, but we should try and lay all the judgmental arguments and hurt feelings by the wayside. This issue should be just as important to the greenest hunter as it is to the most hardened waterfowler.

[ACEINTHEHOLE]

GG, after re-reading my post I probably shoudl have started its own thread and not involved it in this post. I was in no way trying to defend spinners although I have hunted over them and will never offend someone I am hunting with by asking them to turn it off or leave it in the truck. I guess my post was more toward the attitude of some duck hunters towards newbies. I sure dont get my feeling hurt by nothin on here. If you ever heard me blow a call you woudl know spinner are the least of my worries. As far as saving the sport if you told me tomorrow that I could never pull the trigger again so that my children and grandchildren could hunt in 30 years I would drop my guns off at your house. But until those elitest attitudes are put aside and duck hunters start to educate instead or critisize nothing can happen. In our state the MS Hunting Dog Association gets more done than any other group of sportsmen. I belive this is because they are a united group who will accept anyone as long as you love hunting with a dog. If duck hunters could come together like those guys and be a welcoming group then I feel sure that we could get anything done. Again, sorry from distracting from topic.

[Locked Up]

This is a great topic and I fully support the outlawing of spinning wing decoys. They are very lethal in Canada and the Northern States amongst juvy birds. But as it has been stated several times, it has to be taken care of in the big picture, total elimination and not just a few scattered states.

Cwink, you are right to.