The great spinner debate continues......

[K-DUB]

Stirrin' the pot, huh Sprig?

I got us a super deal on a Vortex Spinning Wing Duck Killin Machine (the circus version) for our double ought secret hunting hole this year. Shhhh......dont tell anybody or they will set up on us at daybreak with their chiteaters.

You bring the extra batteries this time, it wore me out carrying them last trip.


Sprig is just trying to preserve our heritage as southern gentlemen.
Just givin' the game a fair chase.

[flyhi2]

Hey, lets just ban all decoys, calls, etc.. We all have seen ducks on a hole thats not being hunted, so its obvious they will land without being coaxed. Now the best scout will kill ducks.... problem solved.

[70 sprig]

[quote]I learned to hunt back in the 70's too. Walked many a day in the cypress trees of Bobo/Annis Brake in a pair of leaky hand me down waders. Camped out on the Mississippi River for days at a time chasing ducks. Still hunt with my dad's old 1960 something A5 that he handed down to me. Never shot a duck with anything but that gun for the last 15 years or so.
So I've got plenty of stories myself...

My whole point is(again).....

As long as there are enough ducks for everybody, and your not doing anything illegal, I am not going to lose much sleep over whether or not somebody wants to use a spinner.


The 'my Papaw didn't use em' excuse doesn't do it for me.

To me, it is just a decoy that flaps its wings. I think it got too much hype when they first came out, and everyone thought that it was going to make hunting too easy. But you have never hunted with one, so you wouldn't be able to comment on whether or not they are really all that effective. I have hunted over one a handful of times, and I think that sometimes they work and other times they don't.

[quote]


1 ) seems like you may have learned how to KILL back in the 70's , ain't so sure you learned how to hunt .....

2 ) as far as my " papaw " is concerned , he would be saddened , just like I am if he could see what has become of duck hunting , fact is I'll promise you that if " papaw " was alive today that he'd rather stand on the ramp and slam his d1ck in the door over and over than see a duck get wacked over a spinner .

3 ) and if you can show me where I said that I've never hunted over one then I'll get on the other side of " papaw's " truck and go to slammin the door my owndamnself ........

I hunted over one when they first came out , and when we limited out in the first few minutes I stated that these damn things are going to be he11 on ducks . Soon after that the dudes that I was hunting with thought I had lost my mind when I ran my gun to the plug and giggled as that sumbich spun it's way outta site in the muddy waters of the oxbow we were hunting .

Again , I ain't pickin on any of ya , just believe what I believe and I don't need stickers on my rig to show you where I stand .

[70 sprig]

Stirrin' the pot, huh Sprig?

I got us a super deal on a Vortex Spinning Wing Duck Killin Machine (the circus version) for our double ought secret hunting hole this year. Shhhh......dont tell anybody or they will set up on us at daybreak with their chiteaters.

You bring the extra batteries this time, it wore me out carrying them last trip.


Sprig is just trying to preserve our heritage as southern gentlemen.
Just givin' the game a fair chase.

Bwaaaahahahahaha ,I ain't sturrin chit , I'm tryin to put on a seminar here if you don't mind , now if I could just get some of these grasshoppers to pay attention

[GordonGekko]

If it was a fact that the use of a gadget as you refer to them was destructive to waterfowl populations someone would ban them I promise you... Until then it will continue to dump money into the great sport we love which will go to fight off those like PETA trying to stop us....

until then happy hunting

"My name is DUCK-HUNT" I neither approve or disapprove of the use of gadgets to kill ducks and I do approve this message..

this reminds me of a little story....
There were once four brothers: Everyone, Someone, Anyone and Noone. They had a very important task to do. Everyone was sure that Someone will do it. Anyone could have done it, but Noone did it in the end. Someone was angry because it'd have been Everyone's job. Everyone thought that Anyone could have done it, but Noone realized that Noone will do it in the end. In the end, Everyone was angry at Someone because Noone did what Anyone could've done.

I only wish PETA was the only enemy waterfowl hunters had to face. I suggest everyone go back and really read what gator, the waterfowler, and Double R 2 have posted. This is not an elitist issue, the issue is what is the real effect of a spinning wing decoy on the population not the effects on the hunters who use them. We can all supply anectdotal evidence till the dogs come home, but something beyond that is required. Just because I have never seen a bird die from ingesting lead does not mean that lead won't harm the population.

I really believe we need to all step back and ask a simple question, if spinning wing decoys could be harming the waterfowl population for future generations am I willing to quit using them?

[three11]

I really believe we need to all step back and ask a simple question, if there is evidence spinning wing decoys are harming the waterfowl population for future generations am I willing to quit using them?

And what is the answer?

I have heard that they are killing more juvenile ducks up north by using spinners. But does that mean that the waterfowl population is suffering because of it? Do the juvenile ducks lay more eggs than mature ducks? I don't know.

I think everyone on here will agree that they give an advantage [i]some[i] of the time. Is it enough that it will harm the waterfowl population for future generations? If it won't, let them use them. If it will, let's do away with them.


The only thing spinning on me is my head,

-Three

[70 sprig]

Muddy , congrats on living to be older than dirt , I'd like to think that when I'm your age that I can still look back at the end of the day , while the ducks are on the grill and say that I'm proud that I outsmarted them one more time , I didn't need to depend on some gadget to do it for me . That's what I'm gettin at .

Now go forth and kill ducks anyway you see fit , and make sure you post some pics .

as I stated earlier , it's not so much what they are doing to the duck population that gets to me , it's the company that they keep .

I bet you hunt with a single shot blackpowder shotgun... or better yet throw rocks at em.. and you don't use waders, decoys, or a call just a leaf off the gum tree you are standing next to get em in...

come on give us a break, everyone on this site takes advantage of new gadgets to help them be more successful in there adventures afield, you and myself included... and its not these gadgets that are going to be detrimental to the future of waterfowl hunting, it's the youth of today that will be here after we are gone to carry on the tradition...

Some people are not as fortunate to be brought up duck hunting and therefore have to figure things out for themselves like myself.... does that make you a better hunter because you where brought up in a traditional duck hunting fashion? I think not...

we should not be critical on how someone hunts... if they want to use spinners so be it... what if that spinner caused that only green top to come in that day and it happened to be a kids first and he becomes hooked on the sport therefore carrying it on..... so what if it wasn't done the traditional way.... you going to knock the kid for shooting it over a spinner... I WOULD HOPE NOT

If it was a fact that the use of a gadget as you refer to them was destructive to waterfowl populations someone would ban them I promise you... Until then it will continue to dump money into the great sport we love which will go to fight off those like PETA trying to stop us....

until then happy hunting

"My name is DUCK-HUNT" I neither approve or disapprove of the use of gadgets to kill ducks and I do approve this message..

1 ) the old wader/decoy/calls argument is really tired ........

2 ) as far as youth goes , check page one of this thread to see what I think about the way youth should be intro'd to duck huntin' , and BTW , there are several men on this site that are doing it the right way ...

3 ) I can not say that I'm a better duck hunter than you , I've never duck hunted with you , however , if we ever meet I'll be able to tell pretty damn quick if you are somebody that would be welcome in my blind , ( for the record , it ain't about who's the best ) ........

4 ) the kid that shoots that greenhead over the spinner , welp he's just like the kid that shoots his first buck over a pile of corn . Sure he'll enjoy it it , but later , if he really becomes an outdoorsman , welp , he'll realize that it's cheating .

I'm Jason Box , and I approve this message

[GordonGekko]

I really believe we need to all step back and ask a simple question, if there is evidence spinning wing decoys are harming the waterfowl population for future generations am I willing to quit using them?

And what is the answer?

I have heard that they are killing more juvenile ducks up north by using spinners. But does that mean that the waterfowl population is suffering because of it? Do the juvenile ducks lay more eggs than mature ducks? I don't know.

I think everyone on here will agree that they give an advantage [i]some[i] of the time. Is it enough that it will harm the waterfowl population for future generations? If it won't, let them use them. If it will, let's do away with them.


The only thing spinning on me is my head,

-Three

Are you asking me for my answer? It was meant as a personal question, but after looking at the limited research I believe they are harmful to the population (not simply in numbers but in migratory patterns as well) I don't use them anymore and will not use them. I suggest anyone interested in this to do a little research (there are probably some articles posted on this very forum) and see what you think. Heck, you might even be able to find out what the biologists at the Arkansas Game and Fish commission thought of the movement to repeal the ban.

[Double R 2]

I really believe we need to all step back and ask a simple question, if there is evidence spinning wing decoys are harming the waterfowl population for future generations am I willing to quit using them?

And what is the answer?

I have heard that they are killing more juvenile ducks up north by using spinners. But does that mean that the waterfowl population is suffering because of it? Do the juvenile ducks lay more eggs than mature ducks? I don't know.

I think everyone on here will agree that they give an advantage [i]some[i] of the time. Is it enough that it will harm the waterfowl population for future generations? If it won't, let them use them. If it will, let's do away with them.


The only thing spinning on me is my head,

-Three

I was asked about this last night. gator touched on some key points. As someone who has hunted over one many times, but prefers not too, let me say this plainly so my rock chunking doesn't cause my glass house to collapse: it must end. the sooner the better.

My single, greatest issue with spinners is based on empirical data from the past decade since their inception and is exactly WHY upper flyway council participants did not join Arkansas: the upper flyway states harvest has increased as much as 600%. At that same time, juvenile mallard harvest in states like Arkansas and Mississippi has DECREASED ABOUT SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT (75%).

Those huge flocks of 250-300 mallards that used to work over the decoys as recently as the mid-1990s that many here are too young to remember even though they've duck hunted for 10 years? Gone. They died up north while they were still brown, pin-feathered little ducks stretching their wings for the first time. Robo duck.

There will always be migrating ducks in the South, who ever heard of the imprinting syndrome the waterfowler is talking about? I'll try to post pictures in the near future of full-blown migrator Canada goose hunts on the Mississippi River south of Greenville. Three to 4 decades ago, the South wintered the big migrator honkers. No more. Not ever again. And cracker eating residents are a very poor consolation.

I don't hate on anyone that uses robo. To each their own. Rhetorically speaking, however, I now choose to swing wood rather than aluminum. My kids have no choice, but they'll appreciate it in years to come.

It'd be easy to get mad at the State of Mississippi for having shown a complete lack of testicular veracity in this regard, but I know and respect too many of them and understand that non-biological-related political pressures are what they are. Our state dnr biologists are without peer; I cannot and will not fault them. What disappoints me most about this issue is that the federal agency entrusted with the conservation of the resource - the US Fish and Wildlife Service's Office of Migratory Birds - has completely turned a blind eye to the issue. Let the states hash it out. Its easier to administratively ignore it, to apparantly appease their upper flyway council members (and if you'll remember: former director Rappaport-Clarkes' renigged of framework dates with southern flyway states at the behest of their northern counterparts, is why Senator Lott got involved in the first place. It's all politics). And it's one heckuva lot cheaper to ignore the issue, too. Put 10-20 million dollars into science-based decision making, or operate refuges? At any rate, they've remained absolutely disengaged for the past 10 years and will do so until someone forms a non-profit org, raises charitable contributions, and legally takes them task.

But hey. Maybe we can all just sit back, continue using our Highway Flyway-endorsed robos "like everyone else" and bitching about the good ol' days when we killed more mallards. After all, we have to do something during those long, duckless lulls in the blind. Eventually, like the migrator honkers of yester-year, maybe we southerner waterfowlers won't have to worry about it anymore.

[crackhead]

Rambo most spot on post ive EVER read on this board!!

[msudawg8087]

Nice post Dub R 2...

[The Waterfowler]

I would like all to look at the big picture and cute remarks aside, address the problem. We're not talking whether or not Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. does this or not. We're talking about the pipeline for the future of waterfowl hunting plain and simple. There are some that would die happy killing the last duck on earth and damn the kids that are populating the next generation. My boys are 25 and 27 and I dare say that they have seen more ducks in the skies than most older men, but they both say that things have changed drastically since they first started hunting twenty years ago. Imagine what I've seen since 1961 when I started? We had better hunting, decoying and numbers of migrating birds when it was a 3 duck limit with one (1) Mallard back then. The spin-wing decoys are a cancer eating at the core of our future hunting as it's a proven fact that young of the year and hens are vunerable to them. A good friend that bands birds in Canada participated in a study on the Canadian Prairie with the spin-wings running for a designated time and then turned off for the same amount of time. The kill over land in stubble fields was better than 50% higher with than without. Over water, it was better than 20%. Yes, this ain't the south, BUT the vast majority of ducks killed were juveniles that could have imprinted down here. The ones that survive and see them the length of the flyway become as decoy shy as old Snow Geese and quality hunting is out the window. This trend is being passed on to the future generations and if you will take a logical, all jokes and cute comments aside, look at it you will agree that things are trending downward.

We are killing the nucleus of our breeding population. The imprinted hens in the Arkansas Prairie are down 40% per some biologists and rising. Ask yourself why there are slot limnits on Bass or Redfish, for instance? The fish within this slot produce the most offspring and are more viable and stronger. Same way with ducks as older hens don't have the big broods like the young birds.

I could care less what is done in individual states as the overall picture suggests start at the top and get the flyways to bring us back to where we were pre-robo days. I remember hunting Beaver Dam in the early 70's and how things were then compared to now. We used to kill a lot of Mallards then. Now they are a rarity compared to then. Things change and we need to look hard at the results of what we have created. It's not for the good for the sport and the future of waterfowl hunting.

RR, I sitting on G waiting on O. Keep in touch.

[Bill Cooksey]

If you haven't hunted the PPR with a spinner in a dry field you have no idea what's happening up north. Here's a little example.

The first numbers are directly from the North Dakota G&F website.
1998) 378,000 ducks killed
1999) 375,000 ducks killed, 6.1 per hunter
2000) 358,000 ducks killed, 5.9 per hunter
2001) 433,800 ducks killed, 6.6 per hunter (highest total in history)
2002) 555,200 ducks killed, 8.6 per hunter (last year I found published kill numbers)
There is some cause to believe the number published by North Dakota is far short of what the actual kill was as a USFWS report put the 2002 North Dakota duck kill at 693,400.

Spinners began to become widely used in the region in 2001. Hunters up north are laughing all the way to the picking shed, and they're laughing at us.

As a final note, the hunting was better in Arkansas during the ban. That's a fact.

[Greenhead22]

Cooksey in the house !!!

Welcome to the board.

[cwink]

If you haven't hunted the PPR with a spinner in a dry field you have no idea what's happening up north. Here's a little example.

The first numbers are directly from the North Dakota G&F website.
1998) 378,000 ducks killed
1999) 375,000 ducks killed, 6.1 per hunter
2000) 358,000 ducks killed, 5.9 per hunter
2001) 433,800 ducks killed, 6.6 per hunter (highest total in history)
2002) 555,200 ducks killed, 8.6 per hunter (last year I found published kill numbers)
There is some cause to believe the number published by North Dakota is far short of what the actual kill was as a USFWS report put the 2002 North Dakota duck kill at 693,400.

Spinners began to become widely used in the region in 2001. Hunters up north are laughing all the way to the picking shed, and they're laughing at us.

As a final note, the hunting was better in Arkansas during the ban. That's a fact.

I don't care either way on the spinners.. But to me the biggest effect on the population is going to be the limit of ducks we are allowed to kill and how many times we pull the trigger. Not the gadgets we use to kill them.