Heartworms?????

[Meeka]

One to the left got a slight positive a month and a half ago. Usually on heartguard, but, being completely honest, it hasn't always been as regular as it should have been. Vet recomended no treatment for now except continued heartguard, religiously, same day every month, not a day late. Vet is of the opinion that it lasts 30 days and only 30 days. And cont heartguard will prevent additional worms, yada, yada . . .

I am curious about the double up trick, because I've started giving the heartguard a little early myself. The extra heartguard soesn't hurt anything other than the pocketbook, I suppose??

[JimAire]

If I were going to double up, then I would use a different product. I use Advantage Multi on the 15th of the month and Heartguard on the 1st of the month. I know of others at the vets office that do the same thing.

[Doc & Nash]

Funny this old post came back up,

Me and T-bone were talking about this very topic this morning. I have kept Nash on the Advantix Multi year round and during the warmer months when mosquitoes are more prone I also give him Interceptor.

Interceptor on the 1-5th
Multi 15th -20th

[Click]

Funny this old post came back up,

Me and T-bone were talking about this very topic this morning. I have kept Nash on the Advantix Multi year round and during the warmer months when mosquitoes are more prone I also give him Interceptor.

Interceptor on the 1-5th
Multi 15th -20th

how long have you been doubling up? I am considering the same.

[quackerbarrell]

Being a Vet Technician in a Hospital in Tennessee I am exposed to all these cases where dogs are becoming heartworm positive while on preventative. In almost every case which I believe is up to ten now the preventative has been Heartguard. I know that there is a study going on right now to find out if there is a resistant being built or if it is just simple product failure. I know that every new puppy that comes in the door at our clinic is getting sent out with some other preventative other than heartguard. I have been told as well as all the other technicians that I work with to inform clients when asked that heartguard is experiencing product failure and that is the reason why we suggest against it.

I personally have a 3 year old lab who lives outside in an open air kennel in the country in the middle of 37 acres. Never missed a month of Interceptor and now Promeris. I recently changed to Promeris from Frontline for the feature that it gives you six weeks of flea kill instead of 4 like all others. This just gives you that extra coverage piece of mind.

Hope this helps some.

Will post anymore details I find out about this topic.

[Dogzeye]

Tally showed up with worms last year. I had treated with heartgaurd, no skips, done on the same date every month. We tested positive March of 2007. We are past all of that now.

I have moved to Georgia, and live in a suburbia environment. I had to re-up the dog's heartgaurd, as he runs out April 15th. I was telling the vet on the island about my experience with HG. This boutique vet, goes to tell me this is an urban legend. That no dog has ever turned up positive that was treated with HG. I don't know what everyone else did, but I do know what I did. My dog did get the treatment on the 15th and did get the worms.

This guys attitude rubbed me the wrong way. I'm curious to know if anyone has the name and number of a rep for HG.

[Meeka]

Crackerbarrell or any vets or info from vets would be apppreciated about doubling up and a single med or mixing meds.

. . . . And, somehow I am thinking Gator can figure this out!!! Even though dogs aint his specialty. . . but mixing stuff up might be.

[quackerbarrell]

As soon as I get more information from my doctors I will share it.. As of today we have pulled out Heartguard off the shelf. So there is a problem as far as my doctors see.

[Damn_It_Boy]

Some folks are over reacting.......

My vet (Dr. Jean - Northtowne Animal Clinic, Jackson) told me today he has had no problems. Said most of the time cases are apparant because someone missed giving the pill, or they think the dog is eating it, and they are not....Roc's been on Heartguard since a pup, and he checked clear today.

[Doc & Nash]

The thing with doubling up, Interceptor and Anvantige multi are two totally different types of medicine. They do not react with or contridict each other usefullness. I have had Nash on the two for almost a year now and have had no negative results. I was testing him in 3 month intervals.

The biggest difference in all the medication that I am aware of is that Advantage Multi is the only medication on the market that protects the dogs from mosquitos, which are the carriers of the heartworms. If you stop the infected host from bitting the dog your stopping the heartworms before they get started.

[goosebruce]

The attitude and information passed to vets is part of the problem.This isn't new, this is going on for over 3 years with hundred of documented cases in the midsouth area (east arkansas, west tenn, ms delta, boothill of mo, and most of la). Every single product has had breakthrus, inclduing some people who double up on 2 name brand products. Hartguard denied there was even an issue for well over a year, and have since changed their directions, guarentee, and funded at least 2 national symposionms on the subject. But vets close to our area that haven't done any research, don't have any info. Pretty damn sorry if you ask me.

Ive had 4 of my personal dogs, 3 of which I know have never missed a hartguard, check postive. One of them was treated twice before testing clear, one has NEVER tested clear after 2 years. No adults, but microfila (what hartguard kills).. the treatment killed the adults, but not the microfila. Go figger. I know a dozen people with confirmed cases, I knew gave their medicenes. Some of them tested clear, and a year later tested postive again. You really think people that invest as much in their dogs as I do wouldnt give the meds? You really think someone who has already went thru it, wouldnt give their meds?

Its an epidmic, but oddly not as bad last year as the 2 years before that. And the industry is covering it up. Hartguard isnt at fault, all medicines are having breakthrus. There is just tons more dogs on hartguard. I give advantix to 1, interceptor to another, and hartguard to rest of my crew.

test every 6 months. it takes 5 months from a bite to check postive. no guarentee is good without 2 negative tests. so every 6 months. cost should be 25-30 bucks, less than a box of medicine your buying, mainly for a guarentee. make sure every dog has a prescription in their name and the time works out right. its not enought o prove you bought enough, its got to be for each indiviual dog. travis

[goosebruce]

oh and dib, as far as over reacting, why do you think a lot of pros in the infected areas are paying vets to come administer the hartworms pills to remove their liabilty. Your vet isnt in the effected area, and the industry has failed to educate him/her like it should have eductated the entire industy. Thats part of the problem. The info is there, if your vet choose to research it. Having spent bout 1700 bucks on hartworm treatments in the last few years, not to mention the worry and stress and time off on my dogs, I take it very serioisly and am pissed off the veterinary community has continued to cover it up. If there was a people medicine with such a high rate of breakthru, it'd be bigger news than the war. But instead, its a realitly small area and being covered up. travis

[Damn_It_Boy]

I'm just tellin' ya what my vet said.........

I don't think anyone purposably missed giving the meds...........but........it happens. Also keep in mind the same vet told me he caught his setter by watching here through the window spitting them out and not eating them. He would keep it in his mouth, then when Doc would go inside, he would spit it out.

I'm sure most vet's are a little more informed than you give them credit for Travis. I trust my Vet more than I do a bunch of flapping lips on an internet message board.

Oh, and my dog spent most of the winter hunting in the Delta, and trained for two months in So. Louisiana, as well traveling to N.La. for a hunt test last year. He's clear as of today. Hope it stays that way.

Sorry bout your troubles, but I'll listen to my vet.

[Troy Williams]

Louisiana or the Delta hasn't had the problem......It's really only chronic in the West Tn, NE Ark, N. Miss. areas.

Missing a monthly dose doesn't guarantee an infection. Neither does being late on the dose......unless you are chroniclly late, they might slip thru. (Not saying anyone should get lazy). The larvea are vulnerable to being killed at two of the five stages of their life, not as they are injected thru the mosquito bites.

Last year it was so dry the mosquitos were alot less a problem in our NE Ark area. This year will be another story and I wouldn't be surprised at another list of infections hitting this board next spring. Vets in the areas listed above are seeing fewer cases this year than last but the only real difference in our area this year from last is going to be all the water and the breeding environment for mosquitos will be optimal. There has been no changes to the standard Hartguard, interceptor medicines that I know of.

I dose straight Ivomec (1% solution)(SPEAK TO YOUR VET ABOUT IT FIRST) now at .1 of 1cc per 10lbs of body weight and do not give Hartguard or Interceptor anymore. .3 of 1cc is equal to 35 times the Ivermectin in HG medicines. ex: I will give .7 of a "C" to my 70 lbs dogs.

I will say that there are alot of vets out there and most know nothing of working dogs. Just because they are vets and have diplomas doesn't mean they know what WE need them to know sometimes. Just a thought for folks.

Good luck to all the dogs this year...I hope nobody's dog(s) suffer a breakthrough of Heartworms this year. It is costly in terms of training time, HT or trial seasons are lost, in some cases lots of money and most of all the dogs hurt from the treatment and we all hate to see our guys suffer.

Troy

[gator]

And, somehow I am thinking Gator can figure this out!!!

MEEKA, i really can't.....or, at least, i'm not comfortable being any kind of definitive voice w/ folks buddies............but, if i could have my life back, i'd sure be a vet right now. just love it.

however, if you will allow me to extrapolate what we do w/ our oncology patients and use it for heartworms, i might can offer some insight into how i would handle your question.

i'll use colon cancer as my example and remember, tumors are basically "growing entities" w/in a body (layman's term) as are heartworms w/in a pets.

the first thing you have to realize is that we are seeing what i would call (and ASCO, American Society of Clinical Oncology has loosely stated) an epidemic of colon cancers........personally, i believe we are seeing it more b/c A) lifestyles B) testing measures are better C) folks are more willing to go see their physicians than ever before, therefore, more diagnosis' are being seen.

one of the major regimens for colo-rectals is FOLFOX + AVASTIN, a 4 drug regimen. w/out getting lost on technical aspects, the meds, while attacking the same thing (tumor) do so in different fashions......thought process is the get at the tumor in as many ways as possible, b/c they are constantly "evolving", or attaining new pathways to bypass the meds (lay speak again).

the same can be said for just about any disease state be it AIDS, hypertension, seizures, etc etc, as often one drug just won't get to the endpoint we are seeking.

so, extrapolating this, i would offer up this bit of thinking IF i was to choose to go to a 2 drug preventive regimen:

1) i'd dose at different times of the month (on the first of the month, and in the middle) in hopes of bolstering one meds declining "strength of therapy" w/ another

2) i'd use (as someone else stated) something that acted in a different manner to achieve the same endpoint (no heartworms)....thinking here (for me) would be, again to get at the issue from another angle and possibly to destroy any lingering parasites (microfilia?)

today, we've read 2 differing thought processes on the issue, DIB and his vets and trav's w/ his vets. i'm not sure either is wrong. there's alot of variables that can, and most likely DO enter into this - location and living arrangements most likely being way up at the top. seemingly, most of the folks that ARE having positive test live in and around the river and it's tributaries. i would think these folks have a higher "contact" percentage than brian or myself.....i say that thinking about the conversations i've had w/ my own vets. they are NOT seeing an upswing, and per them, there have always been a certain percentage of positive test in which they have no doubt the animals were well cared for.

that brings me to medicine in general...........simply put, ALL MEDICINE is prone to failure. i'm not sure it's a companies fault more than it's 'just the way it is'.....yes, it sucks, but like i said last year, all you can do is all you can do.

personally, i've given nothing but a monthly heartworm preventive (heartguard) for both of mine from day one......at this point, i see no reason to change. God willing, i won't ever be faced w/ it, but if i am, i'll most likely go to a 2 drug regimen myself. and, considering that it's my understanding that heartguard needs to be chewed well prior to swallowing, i'd probably go to a liquid form for the second drug, in order to bypass that need (though both of mine chew it up for whatever reason).

i will say, considering all the water EVERYWHERE at present, i AM a bit more concerned about this summer than normal.

any of this make sense?

-Gator