Refs

[duckhunterdoc]

OK, again- how do you get certified???? I would guess that little league would be different from HS--but respond to whatever you do, or are aware of

[bigwater]

i think i'm qualified to speak on this.. called eveything from pony league down to coach pitch for right at 10 years. even did some basketball games.

jr-high/high school refs/umps .. most of the time the level of performance by the refs/umps is equal to the level of performance exhibited by the same jr-high/high school athelets who's games their calling:

i mean what'd you expect. a jr high game will be full of silly turnovers, poor shot selection and other f'ups.. does one really think that the guys who ref those games would be or should be perfect or as close to perfect as possible.. no it kinda goes hand in hand.. the higher the level of athletic performance the better the refs should be... not to say there aint missed calls by everyone.. yes even the refs and umps in the pros and at the college level miss calls...

the golden rule for all refs/umps is the following: call it like you see it. the second golden rule for umps/refs would be to try and be as consistent as possible..

i guess, and i've seen this not that often but on occassion..the thing i hate is when you get a ref-ump. who thinks your there to see him shine.. to see him blow his whistle and make the calls.. no doubt i'm a fan of the attitude of..let the kids play. as fans we came to see the players play. not to see the refs do their things.. i think at the end of the game after is all done and everyone is talking and re-capping what went on.. i think that the best compliment that can be paid to a ref is when theres nothing said at all about the way the game was called.

[duckhunterdoc]

just thought someone may have more information--but from "what i hear "you can become a HS ref pretty much "if you want to do it" --correct or not? sign up, read the rule book, call a few games with the veterans and then your on your own..correct? BTW appreciate everyones post and agree with MOST everything said

[sadie1]

I am a high school basketball coach, and as a general rule the refs are only bad if your team loses. My first few years coaching, I griped at the refs a lot more than I do now. It is a thankless job for sure, but it is also very hard to call a game. You would be surprised how much harder it is to make a good judgement while you are running down the court with the players. It is much easier to make the call from the stands sitting there drinking a coke. Kind of like on a aerial photo is easier to see things that you cant see riding in your truck. They do make pretty decent money doing it as long as they dont have to drive too far. But a lot of the reason more people dont do it is b/c of the abuse they take. $40 to get told you are worthless, blind, sorry, stink, fat, stupid, out there to steal from kids, or so forth, aint a whole lot of money. They are never as good as you would like them to be, but by in large they do a pretty decent job. You forget there is a lot of pressure on them too, and that makes it a lot tougher. If you think it is easy, you should try it and get slammed by some mom that knows nothing to yell at a game except FOUL!!! everytime someone dribbles and see if you dont start getting sidetracked.

[duckhunterdoc]

Sadie 1 IMO very good post--brings up a lot of issues... 2 questions 1. certification? 2. one poster said the stands are too far away to see it( ref is right there)--you say the stands are easier to see from?

[sadie1]

If you are looking to become certified, you have to take a test and attend a meeting or a couple of meetings ( cant remember exactly) What area are you looking to get involved in? Jackson, south miss, north miss? Are you looking to get in the mpsa or mhsaa? Its not too hard to get started in it and generally they are going to start you off in the junior high level, so they dont throw you to the wolves right from the start. We definitely have a shortage of good refs and need new faces all the time. I will say you will realize how much harder it is than what you thought. THe comment about the stands... think how much harder it would be to see if a call should be a charge or a block while you are running and trying to avoid being hit by the ball and with a whistle in your mouth and making sure that kid isnt standing in the lane 3 seconds or did that other kid move his feet while he was setting that screen.. and was that TIME OUT that I just heard out of the coach? It is much more of an information overload when you are the one responsible for seeing it all, and people in the stands have the luxury of only seeing what they want to see. Plus the distance you are from the play allows you to see it better. Trust me on that one. Try to play nintendo when you are two inches from a big screen tv, or watch an action movie sitting on the front row of the theatre and see if you can catch all that is happening....

[duckhunterdoc]

Sadie i agree with you-totally but Now the issue is...the people in the stands may see something the ref doesn't,,,hard job or not ... it promotes in the mind of the parents and friends" he made a mistake" I'm not sure that "it's hard",, i don't get paid enough" "if Ya'll stop yelling at me i could concetrate" are going to change the attitude of people in the stands

[duckhunterdoc]

so how do we prove MR. REF is basicly a good guy--he calls a good nonbiased game, consistent in content and consistent for each team and BTW the "T" on the coach was because the coach was verbally abusive(talked about his Mother and wanted to whip his Ar$e) of course it had nothing to do with the coach sleeping with the refs wife(purely fictional) so aside from the fact that I (duckhunterdoc) can't call a game worth squat and hey it's just plan hard, and money has changed hands(payment for a job) how do we know this job was done to an acceptible level--Btw for MPSA and MHSAA

[Nuker]

Duckhunterdoc-----if you're in Mississippi, there is an MHSAA association in your geographical area. A coach of a local school can turn you on to the assigning secretary and take it from there. Or you can PM me and I can give you his number depending on what sports you want to "empire".

I am a certificied official in football and baseball. I also am working on my certification in basketball. Called everything from little league to state championships and now working Jr College as well.

Do we get every call right?? Nope!!! Do we miss calls? You betcha! I've been called everything but a child of god from folks in my church. However, a good official strives to get every call right and has to lay his head down at night if he misses a call and it effects the outcome. That's tough, especially when you know all the kids involved. (I remember a time I was playing football in the backyard with about 15 boys ranging from 9-12. One of the kids said, "Mr Nuker, our coach said we'd have won the game if you hadn't missed that call." That coach was a good friend of our family.) I lost my cool one time at a fan who confronted me after the game. I told him all it took to call a game was a stripped shirt and a set of balls and I could get him a stripped shirt. I've had folks threaten to whip my butt. They were making bail money the last time I heard from them. You would really get your opinion of folks changed quickly if you officiated a game, even church league.

Your first year in it, you might make enough money to pay for all of your equipment. You dang sure wont break even. Consider the fact that you may have to leave work early to be at games that start at 5. You'll be responsible for any FIT that come with game fees. ((($55 to call both games of basketball a night - and you have to buy the gas to get there.)))

I'm sure your association would welcome you to join them. After reading a rule book the first time, you'll find out how much you didn't know. I promise it will be an eye-opening expierence for you. BTW......make sure you grow a thick skin quick.

[duckhunterdoc]

Not sure if i was just invited to help you " call a game" or just had my Butt chewed out for bringing up this topic...lol...but i do have a punch line (whats on my mind). However, I don't support attacking a ref,ump, etc. verbally or physically ....so for now i am honestly trying to learn more of what goes on rather than complain...i appreciate you ,Nuker, and others for officiating and i would bet that if your BIG enough to admit you miss calls then it's probably not many and you do a good job----but , please answer the QUESTION above "how do we know'? and also a new question , if the money isn't the reason and it's such a bad time, why do you do it (and also remember one person's opinion on this thread was " money wasn't bad)

[Nuker]

No, No, No............I didn't mean that to sound as if I was workin you over. I apologize if it was intrepreted by you or anyone else as that.

How do we know that an official is good? Testing, rules clinics, field clinics, camps and evals by senior officials qualify him. Other than this, we have no system in place to assure that "we know" an official is good. We have all seen games with SEC officials and just hung our heads. How about the guys in the OU-Oregen game? Remember the 5th down. All these are suppose to be "good" but mistakes I guess do happen.

How about the money? I don't do it for the money but I don't do if for free. The higher the level, the more the money. More for a JC game than a high school. I really do HS and lower levels for the interaction with young people and the impact you can have on their lives. Helps teach them to always do your best and to compete fairly.

On missed calls....I do admit when I miss'em and even promote discussions when the call is in question. But there is a time for that and during a game or right after one is not it. Most coaches are approachable when the time is right. On the flip side, I have been right before and called the coach the next day to discuss it with him. Most coaches will admit it as well when they are wrong.

I also like to bring my rule book to work and test my co-worker from time to time. My favorite is when the QB throws the ball and it's clearly uncatchable but a flag is down for DPI. Folks don't understand that there is no such thing as an uncatchable ball in HS football.

Again, I apologize to all for any inflamatory remarks in my previous post.

[duckhunterdoc]

I appreciate the discussion, no need to apologize...If i remember correctly the OU-O game the officials were suspended for one game...this would not have happened with out review and some type of quality control...of course it will be( i guess) years before review hits HS( it could happen--its trickeled from pro to college)...so.. i thought testing gave you certification.... wasn't aware of the others you mentioned,,,and i wasn't aware of evaluations by senior off. how does this work? also do you HAVE to go to the clinics,camps or is this a choice

[duckhunterdoc]

also, Nuker do you agree with Sadie that calls are seen easier from the bleacher

[Nuker]

Absolutely..........folks in the stands have a better angle. Especially in football with the crown on the field.

[sadie1]

Nuker, what leagues do you ref in? I might better ask that before I tell you where i coach at...