Public Fees

[damnyankee]

Well I spoke with my Dad lastnight and he tells me IL. is going to pass a law to charge out of state people to hunt deer on public ground. He said they will probably develope a lottery system and if drawn you can pay to hunt state ground.
I think these states charging out of staters to hunt public ground is some of the biggest $#!+ I've ever heard.
I don't give a shiit if it's ducks,geese, deer whatever. These animals are not property of the state, yeah the ground may be, but all people pay states tax to support some kind of game area. So if I want to go to another state it should not cost me more. It should all even out in the end.
The people that are for it seem to be the people that have private ground so they can charge out of staters more for it. You know a lot of people forget that not everyone can afford 3K for a place to hunt ducks. I know several people who can't afford to pay to kill deer in Il if this law passes, before they drove up every year with their camper and kids and got to enjoy some fine hunting at a fair price. But now states are figuring out they can make MONEY more MONEY and that's what it's all about. Nothing else, not local tax payers, not helping wildlife just pure damn MONEY.
Arkansas prime example, let's face it, it is not the vacation capitol of the world but duck hunting is one of the largest(if not the largest)money making ventures in the state. Do you think the state asked the local businesses who thrive off out of staters what they thought about it, hell no.
Some fat SOB figured out that all those out of state liscense plates in the public ground equals MONEY. I promise you you will now see a steady climb in out of state liscense fees over the next few years. Why MONEY and more MONEY. To hell with Robos what about the guy or gal who can no longer afford to bring their kid on a fair priced hunting adventure that the kid will remember the rest of their life.
Arkansas, they think they own the ducks, they forget the ducks start in Canada and AR in just one of their stops. Did you all see the ad in DU for Canada hunting? Did you see how they are going to step up and rob these southern states of revenue, personally I think their pretty damn smart and I for one hope they do it. Do you think it matters to the guy who is just as close to Canada as he is to AR or MS or LA nope. He'll just move is trip up there. I know some of yall say good more for me, well tell that to people who have had businesses going for 40 years and need that out of state revenue. Or the guides who need that money. Let me give you an example. I've got some friends who meet me in AR every year to duck hunt. Now they hunt my blinds so they don't care about this fee but look at what they spend.
5 Nights motels-$325.00
Liscense--------$320.00 (4@$80.00)
Food------------$500.00
Local tavern----$300.00
Gas-------------$200.00
MISC------------$200.00
TOTAL-----------$1845.00
Now maybe it's a little less or a little more but about$1800.00 into the local economy every 5 days in a sixty day season. Now lets figure there are 200 groups like this in AR every day( I think it is actaully quite higher) of a 60 day season, this equals about $4.5 million now add in what the clubs charge, you know who figured this out, the state. They just want a bigger piece of the pie and they'll get it short term, but in the long run they'll screw it up. Hotel prices will go up to make up for the fewer hunters or for the wealthy , shell prices up, local businesses out.
I realize out of state people piss you off sometimes, I remember them pissing me of too, but I also try to remember 99% are good hard working people, good sportsmen, and don't mean to offend. I also try to remember that most are using their vacation time to hunt with friends and family and sometimes let common sense go out the window. Matter of fact I met some last season in a bar and let them come with me for the day, damn good people and some new friends. But most importantly I try to remember that the animals belong to the Earth, and if I lived in a state that had little to no hunting I'd be going somewhere else to hunt as well. I don't try to be so damn arrogant that I think I actually deserve these ducks more than anyone else because I live here. Helll I got the advantage of scouting, talking to local friends etc.. that should be a big enough advantage. If your to damn lazy to go find some good spots, or talk to people to ask for help too bad. These ducks and deer are not your propery or the states property.
So to all who think out of state fees for public ground is a good idea....kiss my ass.

Almost forgot..Do not mention battery operated devices in any replies, this is part of my "No More Robo Discussions"(NMRD) pledge

[ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: damnyankee ]

[ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: damnyankee ]

[Stano]

Goose pucker up!!!..........Hehe [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

I think it sucks the big one....I live in north MS hunt in three states usally hell both State lines are less than 15 min... add that up......... [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

[Po Monkey Lounger]

Tell us how you REALLY feel about it! [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]

[Welldoggie]

Damnyankee,
I agree with you. Last year I hunted both AR and MS. As in my other responses I live somewhere inside the U.S., and since public grounds were set aside for the public, then where you hang your hat should have no bearing on what the charge is to hunt there. If all are charged one fee, then so be it, I'm glad to pay it for the opportunity.

However, this is also a country of supply and demand. If someone thinks they can get away with charging more, they will--until people stop showing up. So, I don't see any chance to turn the trend around anytime soon because most of us who don't have the cash to buy or lease property will pay an extra $50 just to get a duck fix.

[booger]

It does suck. In general, "user fee's" began in the 80's under Reagan on Federal lands to pay for whatever shortfall existed within the park systems etc. Now the damn concept has spread wherever it can be justified.

The Corp charges $1.00 -$2.00 at the boat ramp, most National Refuges charge about $12.00 (for duck hunting anyway) and on top of out of state license fee's you got another out of state WMA fee (in Arkansas). Where does it stop????

If the water is in Arkansas and this season is "good" there will be no impact. However, if there is no water, warm winter and a poor season, the commissioners will get blamed and lynched because of no $$$$ coming into the state. Any lack of dollars wil be blamed on the WMA fees is my point, which is good.

[goosebruce]

So, what you are saying is, the best public duck hunting in the world should be advaable to people from anywhere, for the measly fee of an $85 liscene? Or a $40 trip liscene. Some of the best public deer hunting in the world is in Illonis (I don't know poop bout deer hunting, but I do know that), should be hoared out for nothing? Face it, if you have something of value, you charge for it. Ducks and deer don't belong to the states in question, but the chance to whack one on public ground does. Tennessee has a "@#$%#" fee for residents to hunt their own wma's, and thats a joke compared to the areas we are talking about. Their is an endless supply of folks making the pilgramiage to the places we are talkings about, and no small fee is going to stop that a bit. Lots of folks won't go to these places, or won't go back because of the crowds, so any you run off cause of a few greenbacks will easily be replaced. When you have too many people the only thing to do is 1)charge them or 2) limit them. And no resident should ever be turned away for a nonresident, period. If you want what a state offers, then by God move there and enjoy it all year long. If you prefer to travel and take what you want from other states, then be prepared to 1)pay for it or 2) wait for it. Would a fee stop me from hunting an out of state wma I wanted to hunt? Hell no, my own state where I have a helluva bigger econmic impact that a few hungry duck hunters do for 5 days, charges me if I want to duck hunt, then if I want to go to wma's, and then if I want to hunt in the northwest cornor of the state, next a big ass public lake (which long ago hoared itself out btw). These charges are for much less of a chance of greatness than an arkie wma fee would be (how many magazine articals you read bout eagle lake or gooch wma? how many bout the metro? think about it), yet are stil being charged for acess to public land.
The big question in all of this, is where is the money earmarked for? None of the highminded people discussing this issue have ever even thought of this. Is it for the effected areas, to be put back into it? Or is simply gonna feed another crack whore? I wouldn't ever pay those tenn fees, cause i don't know whut they do with the money, but it sure aint for the ducks (or to help my chance to whack one!). Sorry guys, you can have good duckin (or deering) or you can have free duckin (or deering), but the chances of being both are gettin slimmer every year. travis

[booger]

Because I public hunt in at least three states every season, I know a thing or two about this and I guess that's why I can't stay out of these WMA discussions.

Damnyankee has put many issues out there and so has goosebruce. I'm not going to try to clear them all up but on a couple I am.

Arkansas is spitting in the eye of their best customer. That's a mistake plain and simple. The commissioners tell us that they need data, well O.K., you don't have to charge for it though. The current data acquisition technique will not yield the desired result. How damn stupid is that? This is the commisioners stance, NOT make believe, NOT to thin people out, NOT to raise money for improvement, NOT for any other reason. Don't belive me?, call Bill Bridgforth or Marion or Dr. Sitzes. I agree on the "where's the $$$ going" part of it.

I though that there was a reason in having cost differentation between resident and non-resident licenses? I wonder what that reason would be? Hmmmmmm

There are other options besides charging more money or limiting hunters. It's called spreading them out. Levee and capture water in several marginal WMA (marginal due to low or no water) and you have just doubled the available area to hunt. How hard can that be in a flat plain?

As for Tennessee, ALL WMA hunters pay the same price. In return, they have trash cans at the boat ramps, levees that hold, diesel pumps, planted crops, clear and simple WMA rules, etc. Not a bad bargain at around $28 (?) heck, thats less than three Arkansas WMA permits. And for that price you can hunt ANY WMA ALL season long. What a concept.

I think what some are forgetting is that when someone starts paying more than another to hunt an area, suddenly the tables are turned and the response is "Get the fudge outta here, that's MY tree, I'm footin' the bill here, you ain't paid squat".
Right now residents may feel comfortable saying that, but that may change soon.