steel shot? why?

[Bodean]

Sportsman -- Here are a few links containing more resources on the topic.

International efforts from August 2002:
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/AEWA/eng/MOP2docs/pdf/MOP_docs/MOP2.11_lead_.PDF

A research Bibliography
[http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/othrdata/pbpoison/refer.htm

There is no shortage of peer-review literature and field studies to support what Goose is stating and what I support. Let me know if you need or would like more information.

Jefferson

[Bustin' Ducks]

Bodean..Maybe you should take another course in reading comprehension...You obviously DIDN'T read any of my posts..I NEVER once said WASN'T Toxic..I agree that it is..However, I dont think I would spend all my efforts in life crying about it like Goose..As for the name calling..Maybe you should try to communicate w/ your buddy Goose..If you've read ANY and most all of his posts, he has consistatly called folks names without regards to knowing them or actually reading AND COMPREHENDING their posts...Goose only got what was rightfully his.....Bodean...I'm proud that you feel you are educated on this subject..But I'm not hiring for any positions..Don't need you resume! Thanks for the reply!!!!!

[the doctor]

741 views 46 replies no changes....steel shot is still mandatory
we busted em with it this weekend

if we could only harness and focus this energy in a more productive manner boy what we could accomplish!

enjoying the reading though
the doc

[sportsman450]

bodean-no probleemo!

I tend to over-react,sorry.

[Vandal]

Boys, Boys,

I will simply defer to my last post. For over 100 years prior to steel shot, birds were taken with lead shot. I am 49 and have hunted for many years both before steel and after steel. In my memory I cannot remember anyone I know gettting sick or dying from ingesting duck meat taken with lead loads.

I challenge all the tree huggers to show me documented proof that they know someone who got lead poisoning from ingesting ducks shot before the steel shot era.

I challenge you to find me scientific data or studies (not produced by Audubon or Sierra club or PETA) that documents that ducks and/or eagles were dying in large numbers from lead shot poisoning. You do it, and I'll shut up, other wise put up or shut up

Gooseluce, I take my name from my Nordic ancestors, if you did study any history you may recall the "Vandals". The F-word has nothing to do with that. Most people that cuss like you do have a low self-esteem, what's the matter Bubba, did mommy and daddy not show you enough love when you was a little one????

[Bodean]

Vandal --

Easy enough . . . here is a link to a lead & waterfowl poisoning study written by Sanderson & Bellrose and published by the United States Geological Survey in 1986:

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/othrdata/pbpoison/pbpoison.htm

I suggest you look at the chapter titled "Mortality from Lead Poisoning".

If this study does not meet your criteria, speak up and I will try to find another study (& I will send you an invoice as well.

Happy Holidays[/url]

[Vandal]

Bo,

Read through the report, however did not see anything in it that makes me believe that lead shot was was that significant in causing any perceived waterfowl population declines.

Mortality was sketchy at best, and the percentages of the ducks and or gizzards tested for lead shot were relatively low. Great information but I am not sold, and saw nothing to indicate that human beings had suffered as a result of eating ducks back in the lead days.

I think that the percentage for cripples caused by steel is probably comparable to the percentages of ducks that may have died as a result of ingesting leads pellets. Therefore, I say bring back lead, of course I know that will never happen so I will continue to take birds with steel shot.

[MemphisStockBroker]

...it is difficult to have intelligent banter with an unarmed man.....

newbies

[Bodean]

I do not recall making any statements about the risk to humans from ingesting lead shot contained in waterfowl. I am also not aware of any such studies specific to that point and did not offer this study to try and prove anything other than points related to mortality in waterfowl.

As for the significance of mortality directly attributable to lead shot, I disagree with you and find the data to be quite significant. You asked for a scientific study . . . the significance is explained in the study in statistical terms.

Help me understand what you mean by "that significant", and by the way, I was a little too hot last night when first posting to you and Bustin Ducks.

[Vandal]

Bo dean,

By the stats in the study it said that less than 5-7% of the duck's gizzards, that were of the study group, contained lead pellets, it stated that of the ducks that had pellet(s) that 1 pellet was not enough to impair health and that 2 pellets might cause ill effects. It stated that few of the ducks sampled had any pellets and those that did very few had more than 1 pellet.

That does not constitute a majore die off of waterfowl by their own assertions.

There was some very interesting data, but as I stated earlier, I did not see anything that made me think that lead was that big a deal.

Have you ever seen what happens to steel when it hits the water or wet ground. It rusts, do you think ingesting rusty steel pellets is healthy for waterfowl???

[sportsman450]

I sure hope you guys keep at this.It might actually lead to some real information.

[mallardhunter]

Hey Vandal - what percentage of die-off would be acceptable to you? Knowing that spent lead kills ducks, if the FWS would let us all switch back to lead, what percentage of mortality would you think we should allow?

I'm just curious, as you state "That does not constitute a majore die off of waterfowl . . ." What percentage would constitute a die off of waterfowl significant enough to justify not shooting lead in your opinion?

And, I'm not sure what study you read that stated, according to you, "1 pellet was not enough to impair health and that 2 pellets might cause ill effects".

According to the Bellrose study, "Bellrose's (1959: Table 31) data suggest that 58.5 percent of the male mallards in the Mississippi Flyway with one or more lead pellets in their gizzards at a given time will die of lead poisoning during that year. "

[goosebruce]

What is large numbers vandel? You state large numbers... What is your defintion of large numbers? The figure I always heard touted was 3% every year... Thats about 3 million ducks, or 4 times as many as was in arkansas for opening weekend. Thats a lot of "@#$%#" ducks my confused viking brothern (the f wurd was just for you).

Low self esteem? Are you kidding me? I'm the smartest mofo alive. I got nuff self esteem for half this board. Momma & daddy show me nuff love? Don't worry bout that... $#!+ I had to talk my home town outta having parades for me. Infact, a lot of folks momma's have shown me love... including busting ducks mom... bwhahahahaha. Just "@#$%#" with you ya sorry chucklehead....

So let me make sure I totally understand your postion at this point... You think lead shot ought to be brought back completely. And you under the impression that all the hub-ub was over people getting lead posioning from eating effected ducks? I just want to make sure I understand what you think, even if its off based.

BD, blow me, a kiss! bwhaahahahahaha. Ya "@#$%#" stop sign shooter.

Sportsman, I never meant to get on yur ass hard. I like to get worked up, and to get people worked up. Thats whut makes this stuff so much "@#$%#" fun (are ya counting them vandel?) . If you thought I was on yur ass, then I'm sorry... I figgered you seen me post nuff ya knew the difference. I bang one of the monstor posts out in a few minutes, and forget that everyone don't know my de-mean-er 100%, and think Im on their ass. I ain't... I just want folks to think for themselves a little on this $#!+. next thing I know people act like this $#!+ is for real, and freak out. Anyway, your still wrong and Im the smartest mutha "@#$%#" in the world. bwhahahahaha. Just wanted to get in one last 'f wurd' for vandel... he loves em. travis

[sportsman450]

Goose-I am a member of a group that has several good mottos.One of which is,"Never forget Rule 62!".You're probably askin yourself right now,"What the "@#$%#" is Rule 62?" Rule 62 is simple.It says-Don't take yourself so damned seriously! I try to live by this rule.Don't always succeed.But,I try.So,hell naw,you didn't bother me.We just disagree,and I promise you,you're not the first to disagree with me!

A final thought on this thread...............Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.You may win,but you're still retarded!!!:lol:

[goosebruce]

Are you kidding man? Arguing on the net is why gore invented this mofo. It aint nothing but a thing.

All the sleepy head threads bout whut shells should i shoot, or do you like sunrises or sunsets more are nothing but people typing to hear themselves think... or sumthing like that. I got tired of dat $#!+ like 5 years ago.

But the arugements are where the fun, and the info lies. Sure, aint nobody changed my mind bout nothing (but then again, Im the smartest mofo in the world remember) and a few folks still don't even know whut in the "@#$%#" we're aruging bout, but a whole lot of people did learn something, and a lot of people thought about something, and a bunch of silly ass folks laughed over this thread. Dude, thats why ya click on the net, for entertainment. Who has more viewers.... the view, or jerry springer... Well springer of course... A few well placed smacks, a couple freaks, and at the end, a moral to da story. Very much like this thread.

I don't even like to get involved with a thread, unless I can answer someones direct question, or have a good chance of arguing with someone. hehehe. Its just me. How many times can you discuss how to set deeks, or what duck call is the best, or brag about an 870? $#!+, these are the kinda threads that people actually get something out of.

I laughed so "@#$%#" hard over being called a tree-hugging liberal the other night I liked to hurt myself... My brother thought it was funny, only hours after saying Id water swat a duckling at this point in the season, blowing down all over the place, I get labeled a tree hugger. Won't be a week, and someone else will call me a greedy southern duckhunter, with no concearn for anything but a big pile of dead ducks. It's too funny. Dat's the net.

I have learned a ton from this internet thing. It has defiently widened my horizions, and made me think bout the big picture on a lot of stuff I never would have otherwise. But most of all, Ive had fun. travis