Take Me Back Tuesday: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL

[Po Monkey Lounger]

Hammer, YOU are the one who said that that US should follow the EU model for carbon credits. Well, as I posted above, the following is the primary fallacy in that EU system:

"The idea of the EU emissions trading scheme (ETS) is that permits to emit the global warming gas carbon dioxide should be screwed down over time lowering actual emissions. One problem, most of the countries submitted emissions plans that allocated permits for more than is currently being emitted--in other words, instead of reductions, they proposed increases. "

What part of that scam do you not understand?

If there really is a "crisis" (and I don't believe there is), then a flawed system like the above EU system might make everyone feel good, but won't do a damned thing to reduce CO2 emissions. Its just green tree hugger masterbation.

[GordonGekko]

classic gator...absolutely classic

[mudsucker]

Hammer emits more hot air than I emit CO2 from the ship I drive!

[gator]

"get these suckers a chicken little forum......."

Gator, whatever do you mean?

awe monk, just pokin a bit of fun.....gator

[Hammer]

MEMO to BR&GH:

Wake up fella....We already live in a TOTALITARIAN state, it has nothign to do with conservation or the environment.....The US has the HIGHEST incarceration rates in the WORLD...Our prison population is over 3MM+ people...More than China which has 3X more people (over 1BB versus 300MM in the US)...OVer 70% of all inmaters are non-violent drug offenders...They are also younger and darker than the average US population and thus not part of the status quo...In other words, many of them can be accurately described as "political prisoners"...

NOTE: I DONT DRINK OR SMOKE. I DONT CONDONE USE OF ANY MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE WHETHER LEGAL OR ILLEGAL. BUT IT IS HUMAN NATURE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO GET HIGH AND PUTTING THEM IN JAIL FOR DOING IT HAS NEVER WORKED AND WILL NEVER WORK. ALL THE "WAR ON DRUGS" HAS DONE IS COST THE US TAXPAYER TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOST TAX REVENUES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPENSES, NOT TO MENTION THE PRODUCTIVITY OF PEOPLE THAT COULD BE WORKING IF THEY WERENT LOCKED UP.

This started with Reagan and the "War on Drugs" as a pork barrell program for law enforcement agencies and the companies that sell to them, prison construction companies, prison contractors, etc...But it is a symptom of a much larger problem...The status quo has a death grip on the political system of this country and that has resulted in many, many problems that nobody in Washington has the guts to solve and WE THE PEOPLE are not educated enough or motivated enough to do anything about it....

You guys are either ticked off that the BIG MONEY has a death grip in this country OR you are part of the big money and dont want anything to change....If you are part of the former, you are taking it out on the wrong folks- the enviros- and the wrong politician- Al Gore...Clinton and Gore tried to shake up the status quo on health care and social security, floated a trial balloon on legalization of pot, got the Israelis and PLO to the table, etc, etc and look what they got for it? Run out of town on a rail by the very people that should have been for 'em- middle class, white America...If you are part of the latter, you better wake up and figure out that we are all in this together and that Mother Nature's attack on the human race knows no boundaries of race and class...Likewise, sooner or later the little man will rise up and kill your status quo arses in a bloody, violent revolt...That too is human nature and history is replete with many, many examples of the smug status quo winding up very, very dead....

Meanwhile while you guys are missign the forest for the trees, we are in the midst of a CANCER EPIDEMIC, an AUTISM EPIDEMIC, an OBESITY EPIDEMIC, an ASTHMA EPIDEMIC, our children are shooting up their schools and the big money is too busy making money and buying the political system for anybody with the power to make changes to care...

What wil undoubtedly happen with CO2 is what has already happened wtih SOX and NOX...Emitters will be required to reduce their emissions, they will do so at the smokestack when that is the least cost option and they will buy credits from other companies when that makes more sense and we will all be better off for it in terms of a cleaner environment that at least prevents mankind from exacerbating whatever natural climate conditions may be occurring...A lot of the CO2 emissions reductions will come from energy efficiency, changes to non-fossil fuel energy such as WIND, SOLAR and NUCLEAR which is already happening...You will pay for some of thsi through higher taxes on fossil fuel generated electricity, gasoline, etc, you will participate by buying higher fuel economy standards vehicles and if you choose, to live totally carbon neutral by purchasing carbon credits. but only if you want to...Some of it will be voluntary, some if will be involuntary thru higher prices and higher taxes...Its called THE POLLUTER PAYS and it seems like a fair way to address things since I dont want YOUR pollution in MY air...LIkewise, if you are a farmer, I dont want your pesticide/herbicide and fertilizer runoff in my water or air...You pollute, you pay and you pass the cost along in higher prices to consumers...That is called MARKETS, it is not in anyway TOTALITARIAN and it bets the heck out of the current situation where POLLUTERS are NOT paying but society is....

DO the search RELIGION AND GLOBAL WARMING and see what you come up with...RELIGIONS all over the world are coming out in favor of addressing GW...I cant wait to hear your explanation regardign the TOTALITARIANISM of religion.

[mudsucker]

You saying RELIGION AND GLOBAL WARMING are both myths?

[Po Monkey Lounger]

China has lower incarceration rates because they kill a whole lot more prisoners than we do. No need to incarcerate a dead body.

Now if we were to institute the death penalty (and actually enforce it swiftly) for child molesters/predators, folks who sell drugs to our kids, and those who brutally beat and rape our women, then we could lower the incarceration rate a whole lot.

Just who do you think we should let back out into society? If the bastards are in jail, they can't continue to commit crimes.

We need to build one huge booty prison just outside of Jackson, MS, and start filling that SOB up and cleaning up our capital city. What a mess!!!

How is that for hijacking a thread???

[Bullreds & Greenheads]

Hammer,

Here's a couple of helpful links for you:

http://www.workpermit.com/netherlands/employer.htm

http://www.workpermit.com/germany/employer.htm

I think you'll be much happier there. In the Netherlands drugs of all types are legal, as well as prostitution.

Germany has a strong Green Party.

Also, neither one of them have much use for religion anymore.

Enjoy! And don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!

[Po Monkey Lounger]

GW IS a religion. Its not science. Its a matter of faith.

[Hammer]

No thanks BR&GH, I'll stick it out here in the US but I'd like to see some things change before I meet my Maker...

For example, if 10% is good enough for God, why isnt 10% good enough for government? I'm suggesting that state income taxes be 10% (for everybody) and federal income taxes be 10% (for everybody) and we be allowed to keep 80%. Everythign is income- no deductions, no capital gains treament- no accountants- no mess and no other taxes...No sales taxes, no property taxes, no other taxes...Government lives within its budget, year to year, with no authority to borrow money...That would be a pro environment tax policy if there ever was one since it would stop the madness of "growth at all costs"...

The gaps in what government provides now versus what people want would be filled by the private sector and non-profit sector who would be inundate with money since we would not be sending it off to the black holes in Washington and our state capitols...

Obviously, I believe We the People are better off living in a clean environment than a polluted one...What good is a lot of money if you got cancer, your kids are autistic or asthmatic and the ducks winter in Alberta?

Crime comes from drugs because drugs are illegal and thus cost way more than their production cost, not because drugs causes people to do illegal acts....

Those are my Big 3 issues- taxes, the environment and criminal justice because they way things are handled in the US on these issues is inherently unAmerican as I understand our Constitution adn the philosophy of the Foundign Fathers....Stay away from them and you wont get me involved in an 8 page thread...

As for PML, you have got to be kidding...Judge US society by comparing us to China? Have we sunk that low?

The problem with "hang em all" is that "all" could include your son or daughter...Ask Fred Smith of Fed Ex or any parent whose kid has gotten a DUI or a drug bust...Tony LaRussa? Dead...Eli Manning? Dead...Brittney Spears? Dead...Rush Limbaugh? Dead...Your name could be next. Sure it solves the crime problem...It also results in Islamic fundamentalist state...I'd much rather live in Amsterdam than Islamabad.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

"Now if we were to institute the death penalty (and actually enforce it swiftly) for child molesters/predators, folks who sell drugs to our kids, and those who brutally beat and rape our women, then we could lower the incarceration rate a whole lot. "

I don't think any of those folks you mentioned committed anything remotely close to the above referenced crimes I listed as warranting the maximum penalty. I could live without these types of criminals and feel free as a bird. Chirp Chirp.

[mudsucker]

"Go rockin' robin."

[tunica]

when does duck season start My head is hurting

[Hammer]

The problem with your logic is that 75% of those incarcerated are non-violent drug offenders...Killing the murderers, rapists and molesters doesnt solve the incarceration problem... They are a very small percentage of the prison population...A vast majority of the other 25% are criminals who committed robberty or burgalry to get money to buy drugs...

Legalize pot and cocaine in the privacy of your own home and the rest of the drugs would largely disappear from our streets...Why pay for heroin when you can get cocaine much cheaper and do so legally? Meth is popular because it is cheap...Legal cocaine would be cheaper adn while cocaine is highly addictive, it is not as addictive as meth and does not do the physical damage that meth does...Sadly, this is a pick your poision situation but clearly what we are doing now is not working so we ought to try somethign different...

If the "War on Drugs" were accompanied by serious resources dedicated to prevention and rehabilitation that might make me reconsider my position, but the fact is that health insurance companies jack you around on drug rehab like they do everything else and state education budgets dont put nearly enough funding into drug education programs...Our policy is seriosly biased to the supply side which is almost impossibel to stop...We shoudl be focused on the demand side...Why are our kids and young people hellbent on self destruction? Where do they get the idea that the risk is worth the reward? Meth in particular shows how desperate this situation is...The stuff is made from poison, is poison and does to your brain and body what poison does- kill you everytime you take a hit or shot....Why would anybody risk that for a buzz? What makes a user think that somehow his life will be better with the drug in it? Or does the user think he/she will be the one out of a million that can "handle it"? Memo to drug addict: Nobody handles heroin, meth, pills, etc...Alcohol- possibly...Nicotine- definitely when not in a cigarette delivery system...Cocaine- harder but possible...Beyond that, you dont handle it, it handles you...If we spent 10% of the money we spend on prisons and the criminal justice system on eductation, prevention and rehabiltion we would be much, much better off...

Here in MS we have taken the lack of funding on the demand side to another level by our Guv and State Treasurer making a political issue out of the funding of Partnership for A Healthy Mississippi...

Legalization would result in much lower prices for pot and cocaine would drop so criminal activity associated with them would disappear....Drug money would quit going to terrorists, gangs and mobsters and would instead sold by businesses, be regulated and taxed...Tax revenues could be used to educate, prevent and rehabilitate...

Alternatively, we can continue the "war on drugs" since it is working so well at filling our prisons, siphoning off our tax money to the benefit of the "war on drugs industry", breaking up families and funding terrorist groups.

I have highjacked back my thread. Shall we talk drug policy, capital punishment, go back to GW or kill this mutha of a thread with no further adieu?

[Hammer]

I hate to go back to back posts but I couldnt resist...This is the type of thing I am talking about...Yall would have us believe that these type of deals are happening because Al Gore and the Green Mafia are taking over the world through the religion of Global Warming...Get real- we are talking BILLIONS OF DOLLARS here.

Consider this a rehijacking of a highjacking and getting us back to the root discussion: IS GW REAL? IS GW MANMADE? AND WHAT EFFECT IS GW HAVING ON WATERFOWL?

KKR and TPF are voting with their money and their vote is that GW is real and is manmade

TXU plans coal gasification plants

New York, 15 March: After cancelling eight coal-fired power plants due to environmental concerns, US utility TXU says it will build two coal gasification plants that will capture carbon.

The announcement came from Dallas, Texas-based TXU and Texas Energy Future Holdings Limited Partnership (TEF), which plans to acquire TXU. TEF was formed by private equity firms Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co (KKR) and Texas Pacific Group (TPG).

KKR and TPG stunned the environmental and financial worlds in late February when – as part of a planned $45 billion leveraged buyout of TXU – they pledged to cancel eight of 11 standard coal plants the company had planned, reducing the total from 9,000MW to 2,200MW.

That plan had been criticised by large TXU shareholders, including state pension plans, which warned that ignoring the likelihood of US carbon regulation would expose the company to tremendous risk. They suggested coal gasification but TXU executives said the technology was not yet economically viable.

Now TXU and TEF said they "have started the planning process" for two integrated gasification combined cycle (IGCC) plants, which gasify coal, extracting carbon dioxide (CO2) and other pollutants, then burn the gas for power production. The CO2 can be sequestered underground.

TXU and TEF will issue a Request for Proposals (RFP), to be reviewed by a new sustainable energy advisory board (SEAB). The SEAB, which will include members of environmental groups, will select two or more competing IGCC technologies that can utilise lignite, a low-grade coal mined in Texas, as well as low-sulphur coal from the Powder River Basin (PRB) of Wyoming.

Details on plant sizes and cost will be determined through the RFP process, said TXU spokesman Tom Kleckner. CO2 is already used in Texas for enhanced oil recovery, and TXU stated that the plants "will be well-situated to support carbon capture and sequestration".

The acquisition still faces hurdles, though, as Texas legislators, fearing consumer rate hikes, are advancing bills that would give the state Public Utility Commission a veto over the merger. KKR has stated that the buyout does not require PUC approval. Lawmakers in the US Congress are also scrutinising the deal.