Take Me Back Tuesday: GLOBAL WARMING CORRAL

[Po Monkey Lounger]

Carbon Market Collapse Imminent?

Ronald Bailey | December 6, 2006, 11:23am

In October, all of the European Union countries forwarded their proposed National Allocation Plans for carbon dioxide emssions to the European Commission. The idea of the EU emissions trading scheme (ETS) is that permits to emit the global warming gas carbon dioxide should be screwed down over time lowering actual emissions. One problem, most of the countries submitted emissions plans that allocated permits for more than is currently being emitted--in other words, instead of reductions, they proposed increases. Collectively, EU countries have allocated permits allowing emissions 15 percent higher than actual emissions. If these proposed allocations stand that could put the kibosh on Europe's nascent carbon market. As EC Environment commissioner Stavros Dimas warned, "If member states put more allowances into the market than are needed to cover real emissions, the scheme will become pointless and it will be difficult to meet our Kyoto targets."

So Dimas promised to whack the carbon scofflaws and demand that they lower their emissions allocations to effect genuine cuts. Now, Germany has given its answer and it's a great big raspberry. Reuters reports, "Germany will ignore a ruling by the European Commission on Wednesday that rejected Berlin's climate change targets for 2008-12, the economics ministry said on Friday."

If Germany won't go along, don't expect France, Britain, Poland, and so forth to do so either. Some thoughts on the future of the ETS here.

[JJ McGuire]

PETA on global warming: The most powerful step that we can take as individuals to avert global warming is to stop eating meat, eggs, and dairy products.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

"PETA on global warming: The most powerful step that we can take as individuals to avert global warming is to stop eating meat, eggs, and dairy products."


I am expecting Hammer to lead this charge, as he is the resident spokesperson for GW and should be leading by example.

Instead of steak and egg, sub tofu and brussel sprouts.

But wait, if we start eating too many plants/veggies, won't that reduce the oxygen levels in the atmosphere. Don't we need oxygen to breath and exist? And wouldn't that reduce many of our carbon converters --plants turn carbon dioxide into oxygen ---thus, increasing carbon dioxide levels?

[SupperDuck]

For those of you truly concerned about Global Warming, Climate Change, or the wanton destruction of the environment caused by humans, here are a couple of organizations you might like to join:

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/coefaq.html

and

http://www.vhemt.org

Enjoy, and remember, it's the least you can do for the environment.

[Hammer]

You guys got it all wrong...Do you really think that Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citibank, Bank of America, etc not to mention a who's who of American and World industry give a rat's ass about Al Gore or PETA? Do you really think that 16 states (5 in the West and 11 in the East) are enacting their own carbon emissions regulations because of political correctness, bogus science and Al Gore? Not to mention most of the industrialized nations in the world, including our #1 ally- Great Britain?
Not to mention religious leaders from all faiths and from all over the world? Dont believe that? Check out the Environmental Evangelical Network website....

Let me make sure I;ve got this straight...A bunch of duck hunters in MS- lead by PML- have got it all figured out...GW is a liberal hoax perpetuated on the world by Al Gore....

Truth is that you have learned the game of smoke and mirrors obfuscation well from the tobacco companies but like so many smokers (and unfortunately their families and second hand smokle inhalers) are finding out, the SCIENCE is even worse than they feared...Turns out that cigarette smoke has many more toxic chemicals in it than anybody knew even 5 years ago including frigging radioactive particles...It's not just dangerous to smoke cigarrettes, its not just dangerous to inhale second hand smoke, but its also dangerous to be NEAR anybody that has smoked because you are exposed to these chemicals from their hair, clothes and breath...

The science of C02 will prove equally understated in hindsight...Anybody that pays close attention to ecosystems anywhere in the world will tell you that an overwhelming majority- if not all- are in significant decline and that there are unexplainable factors at work...CO2 has been let out of pandora's box but yall keep sticking your hand in the sand...

You guys are knee jerk so called "conservatives" but you dont even know the meaning of the word...You dont get it that allowing industry to pollute is an invasion of private property rights and if you were true conservatives you would fight that with all your might...You dont get that the sure fire way to make money in the US is to rig the deck through politics and get yourself a big, fat government contract...In other countries, that is called socialism but here you so called "conservatives" call it being "pro business"...

The Republicans have used the race and regionalism cards and gotten over on you and you dont even know it...You attack anything that is not right wing Republican without thinking it through...Got news for you boys- you are getting your reward right now...You elected an idiot for a President, he turned things over to a couple of egomanical, paranoid, sociopaths named Cheney and Rove and they will all be very, very lucky to avoid hard time by the time Scooter Libby gets through singing...Your leadership is so pathetic that you lost the Congress to the limp wristed Democrats and you are supporting Rudy Guliani even though he has been married 3 times, photographed in drag a half dozen times and is pro-abortion and pro-gay rights...

Dont brand me a liberal or a democrat...I am an American and have fought for your rights even if you dont know or acknowledge it...I am a card carryign member of the GRIDLOCK PARTY because I realize that the US system of government is so broken, so controlled by big money, that it cannot be fixed without a Constitutional Convention...We have government of the money, by the money and for the money and in every civilization in human history that has led to revolution...Maybe in our lifetimes, maybe not but it is inevitable if things dont change and change soon...

BTW- you will also lose on GW...Whether you want to acknowlege it or not, there will be regulation of GHG emissions in the US within the next 5 years - probably more like 2 years....I'll look forward to hearing your philosophical grumgling about Al Gore, PETA, etc when you are paying real cash for carbon taxes on gasoline, your electric bill and on virtually everythign else.

[GordonGekko]

Hammer, I'm glad that you have ultimate faith in CO2 as the cause of all the global warming problems, and that humans are the reason CO2 levels are rising.... And furthermore, I am actually impressed that you are concerned enough about this to be willing to follow the first panacea we are offered to make sure temperatures don't rise (whether it is a natural cycle or not).... You have my respect for your faith in this panacea if nothing else....

Now, I realize that Po Monkey and I should not have influenced a British T.V. network to produce a documentary debunking the myth of CO2 emissions...we carried that one a little too far, even for us....

Still, I imagine you're correct that we'll see some CO2 regulations in the near future whether we like it or not (we have already seen tighter emission regulations for diesel engines).... I only hope that somehow the fight against global warming turns out better than all of the other "hot button" fights our country has initiated to eliminate scourge's from our world such as: Prohibition, the fight against the spread of communism (Vietnam, need I say more), and gun control.... In the big picture these were all seen as threats to humanity, as is global warming....

I guess I should just close by saying, after these regulations pass...call me in thirty years...and we'll see if they worked.... because the bottom line is I have my doubts that this is anything but a group searching for an "answer", who happens to have found an "answer" and doesn't care if it is the "right answer" (or if there is even an answer at all)....

We'll just have to agree to disagree....

[JJ McGuire]

TEN REASONS TO LOVE GLOBAL WARMING

1. Longer growing seasons. – more food for hungry people, more biofuels for hungry cars.


2. Burning less fossil fuel for warmth. Just what the Goregoyles want, right?


3. Won't need winter wardrobes. Save big bucks. If the weather turns chill just toss on another layer of summer duds. An "I Heart Global Warming" Tee shirt should do the trick.


4. Alaska will melt. This will create the biggest land rush since government goons stole the Cherokee Strip from the Oklahoma Indians and opened it up to White settlement. Just think, new farms and homes and cities, causing a population shift away from dense overcrowded cities in the lower 48. Those who stay will have fewer cars to fight with on their commutes to and from work.


5. Panama will sink. Panama below the canal is mostly swampland now. Large freighters and supertankers too large for the locks will have a free shortcut across the immersed isthmus, making world trade cheaper and faster.


6. Panama will sink. Great news for the anti illegal immigration crowd. With the land bridge between the two continents gone it'll be tougher for South American border-busters to migrate north. And if the Rio Grande permanently flows at floodtide from melting glaciers...


7. Vikings will get Greenland back. Greenland must indeed have been a green land when Erik the Redheaded Stranger homesteaded there and named it in 982, since it was during that aforementioned Medieval Warm Period. Alas, the last known Norse record from Greenland indicates that the island was abandoned around 1500, smack in the middle of the Little Ice Age. That period's global warming brought them, and the expanding ice cap literally pushed them over the edge. Now their Danish descendents can dig up old deeds and return to their ancestral homes once today's Post-Modern Warm Period gets cranking.


8. England will get their wine industry back. Yep, Jolly Ol' England had vineyards just like France and Germany and Italy, until that nasty Little Ice Age came along and turned it all into frozen Snapple Grapeade. With global warming comes Vineyards and Fine English Table Wines and a whole new industry creating jobs for thousands. What some people call Global Warming, others will call Getting Back To Normal.


9. More months of bikini babes. Need more be said?


10. Stop the next Ice Age. Scientific American ran a March 2005 cover story by marine geologist Prof William Ruddiman of Virginia U entitled "Did Humans Stop an Ice Age?" How so? According to the Prof, up until about 8,000 years ago the Earth had been regularly alternating between cold periods and warm periods due to Earth's orbital wobble, but then the planet suddenly missed a period. It stayed warm. His explanation is "farming." People all across southern Eurasia whacked down forests so the sun could get to their crops. Others flooded wetlands and created rice paddies. So, clearing the forest generated carbon dioxide and irrigation generated methane.

[bamahunter]

the SCIENCE is even worse than they feared...

Your killing me with the enthusiastic use of the word "science" in all your posts and you've yet to give us anything of value.

[Po Monkey Lounger]

"A bunch of duck hunters in MS- lead by PML- have got it all figured out"

That's the fact --JACK!!!!!!

And what influence we bring to the anti-GW movement. I just saw a peer reviewed article in a recent issue of Mother Earth entitled: "How cow schit is killing the planet", which quoted me and several others on this site, casting us in a light of great disdain. We are now on the Green Party's hit list. Clearly, this anti-GW movement is a vast, right wing conspiracy, orchestrated by us duck hunters on this forum.

[Cotten]

BRING IT-

Hey Hammer, I recently heard something in the news stating farming of animals to be sold for meat does more harm to the environment than all of the energy consumption in the world. Now I have no clue whether or not this is true; probabaly not. But if it were, would you be willing to "do your part" and give up meat?

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Hammer]

I eat a lot more deer, duck, dove and turkey meat than I eat beef so I am not a factor in that equation even if it is true which I seriously doubt...

Incidentally, the vast left wing conspiracy of GW also includes DU which is actively pursuing CO2 sequestration deals...DOnt forget how this thread started- I suggested that GW was one of many factors in fewer wintering ducks in the South Delta...PML disagreed with that premise, then amended his disagreement by saying that GW was happening i.e the Earth is getting hotter but the question was - in his mind- whehter or not it was natural or manmade...

I clearly believe that it is manmade but have stated previously that it makes no difference to me whether it is natural or manmade...Humans have to find ways to deal with it or the consequences of melting ice/rising ocean levels/extinctions will be Biblical in proportion...This is a pay me now or pay me later situation and the longer we wait, the higher the cost.

I am pleased that we have gotten to 6 pages and 80+ posts on this thread. I will soon quit following it but will keep a file of additional GW evidence and start the thread back up in the fall, when it will undoubtedly be even more obvious that GW is real and it is human induced.

[Hammer]

BTW, how do you "stinking genuises" of MS-DUCKS GW NAYSAYERS (hereinafter referred to as MDGWN) explain Japan and Russia's signatory of the Kyoto Treaty?

Please explain to me with specifics, how exactly the vast left wing conspiracy of environmental wackos, politically correct scientists, misguided corporations such as GE, Alcoa, Duke Energy, BP, Shell, etc and the governoers of 15 states including CA and NY which have two of the biggest economies in the US, convince the best automobile manufacturers on the planet (Japan) and an economy ruled with an iron fist by a former KGB agent (Russia) that human induced GW was real?

[JJ McGuire]

so you think russians and japs tell the truth, and that the japan & russia could ever be in alignment? you need to review history. they both still dispute the ownership of many islands and waters of the pacific. aside from the fact both have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental concerns or actually complying with what they have agreed to with regard to global resources.

[Hammer]

Put it in context JJ McGuire...If it was JUST Russia and Japan, that would be one thing, but it is Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and over 100 other countries whom have signed Kyoto, 15 US states (5 in the West, 11 in the East) that have passed laws limited GHG emissions, an overwhelming majority of the Republican controlled US Senate (pre-November, 2006 elections) that wrote the White House requesting leadership on mandatory GHG emission reductions, numerous companies that are bigger than the economy of Mississippi whom have done the same thing and the chief climate scientist for NASA along with 2200+ climate scientists throughout the world...

Ever heard of the Chicago Board of Trade? They cofounded the Chicago Climate Exchange to trade CO2 credits among other things...Dont take my word for it...Check it out on the Internet, then explain to me how Al Gore duped those commodity traders, money managers and companies into this colossal waste of their time...

PML and the other MDGWN would have us believe that all of the above and many other supporters of the premise that GW is human induced are members of the New World Order Movement as led by Al Gore...

I have simply asked for an explanation of how Big Al has pulled this off and have yet to receive one...I have also asked that just one person tell me how anybody on this forum is smarter than the chairmen of BP, GE, Alcoa, Duke Energy and many other companies, governors of CA, OR, WA, NM, AZ, NY, NJ, CT, VT, MA, etc, and the 2200+ scientists whom have signed the UN's IPCC statement on climate change...

I have heard nothing but extemporaneous BS in response to my requests and I wait to hear somethign in response that has some semblance of legitimacy...Still waiting-

[Wildfowler]

DOnt forget how this thread started- I suggested that GW was one of many factors in fewer wintering ducks in the South Delta...

Read this in today's Clarion Ledger:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/20 ... nter_N.htm

More bird species in the USA are ranging farther north and even staying there for the winter in a possible sign of adaptation to global warming, ornithologists and conservation groups say.
Some indicators come from the recent Great Backyard Bird Count, which found more swallows, orioles and other common birds in uncommon locations.

"We've got Baltimore orioles in 14 states, orchard orioles in five different reports and Scott's oriole in Pennsylvania. They shouldn't be here. They should be way south," says Paul Green of the National Audubon Society, co-sponsor of the count with the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.


PHOTO GALLERY: Birds adapt to warmer world

Scientists cannot say yet whether the birds' movements are climate-related or a short-term reaction to storms, hot or cold spells, disruption of habitat or food availability.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: US Fish and Wildlife Service | Townsend | Backyard | Count | National Audubon Society
However, the results of the four-day tally performed in February are "a tempting indicator of change, which may turn out to be the early stages of the effects of changing climate on bird distribution," Green says. "We won't know for certain until we have another 20 years of data."

Birds may have nature's best advantage against temperature rise: They can fly away. That can make them bellwethers of climate change, says Cornell ornithologist David Winkler. Birds "really are the canary in the coal mine — a very sensitive indicator of what's going on in the environment," he says. "We will see changes in their distribution long before we see big drops in their abundance."

Unusual sightings this winter include tree swallows in 22 states, twice as many as a decade ago, and red-bellied woodpeckers in New Brunswick, Canada.

Greg Butcher, Audubon's bird conservation director, says, "We know that things like Carolina wrens, eastern bluebirds, robins, crows and mourning doves are all spending winters farther north, and probably many more."

The backyard count, started in 1998, and an annual Christmas tally since 1900 provide two sets of data critical to gauging how birds react to warming: sheer numbers of birds and movement of species beyond traditional ranges.

Other factors can account for unusual sightings, such as the growing popularity of backyard bird feeders and loss of native habitat to development. "But when you see populations of birds" shifting, Butcher says, "you take notice."

The American Bird Conservancy noted last month that seven warbler species have shifted more than 65 miles north in a quarter-century.

It also said a Colorado study found robins arriving two weeks sooner at breeding sites still covered in snow, hindering access to food. "As a result," the conservancy says, "the 'early birds' may not get the worm."

Do you think tracking patterns of bird migration is a valid method to determine that global warming is real? Tell us your opinion.

Posted 20h 23m ago
Updated 8h 6m ago E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Hammer, you may be on to something.