new puppy or finished
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champcaller
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new puppy or finished
This has probably been posted here before but i do not visit this thread very often, but was wondering something? i dont plan on getting another dog soon but... what are the pros and cons of getting a finished dog versus a new puppy? and for those of you that have bought finished dogs how was the bond and how did it turn out?
I would buy a full trained dog any day over a puppy if money is not a problem. Also if you buy a good puppy and really spend the money to get it fully trained you come out better buying a finished dog. The biggest deal in buying a finished dog is to get someone who really knows dogs to help you find a good finished dog, many trainers will sell $#!+ dogs as finished dogs. If it is a lab the bonding is know problem.[/b]
money is the biggest thing........ do you have it??? to me, trainin my own dog and watching it everytime go do what she is suppose to do is better than anything, if i forgot my gun any morning i would be completly ok just watchin my dog, cause i know i did it.....
If it wasn't for bad luck then i would have no luck at all........
"Its hard to be cool when your battery is dead." Anatidae at the boat ramp with a dead battery.
IN MEMORY OF #10
SCOTT LlOYD
1/8/92-4/5/08
"Its hard to be cool when your battery is dead." Anatidae at the boat ramp with a dead battery.
IN MEMORY OF #10
SCOTT LlOYD
1/8/92-4/5/08
dog
buying a trained dog is a lot cheaper than paying to raise a trained dog. if you can train it yourself, you'll save money, but not time. bonding with a lab is not an issue; if you pet him on the head, he'll love you within 5 minutes.
I've sold 2 trained labs, both 2yr old males, and neither of the new owners would part with them for any amount of money. All it takes is one bumper toss, and the both of you will be hooked.
it is just a question of which you want more... to train your dog, or to have a trained dog.
I've sold 2 trained labs, both 2yr old males, and neither of the new owners would part with them for any amount of money. All it takes is one bumper toss, and the both of you will be hooked.
it is just a question of which you want more... to train your dog, or to have a trained dog.
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greenheadgrimreaper
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I think there is not many tasks more daunting, esp to a necomer than training a dog and training it RIGHT. I aint got the fanciest bloodline dog in the world and he won't be the best but with some help I am hoping to have a fine duck dog one day. My pup picked up around 75 birds this year he had a leash on at all times. He aint steady and I aint gonna act like he is. But I know if I stick with it I hopefully will have a nice working dog next year. I think if I could do it again I wouldn't do it any different. I have enjoyed training my dog and between work and college I am as eager to go train as my dog is. The phone cuts off and it is my time. I think with some help from guys on here and people like Bocephus1 training a dog yourself can be rewarding and frustrating as crap at times. Different strokes for different folks but I have always looked up to and respected good dog trainers and hope to aspire to be one myself some day. I enjoy trying to do new things and dog training is just my new found obsession that I don't think I'll ever get tired of. Good luck champcaller, you may put them calls down and start obsessing with dogs if you ever get started. I know I did. 
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Jay Dufour
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risk
Hi.We buy puppies or welp puppies for speculation,and sell them finished,through transition,and ready to hunt.The element of risk is eliminated for the buyer,as the retriever is already through the rigorous training it takes to get there.Some really well bred puppies just dont make it.I just bought a puppy from Missouri out of a great FC that I can already tell she wont make it through our program(800.00).Our retrievers go from 4K to 12K.The new owner MUST come out and learn to work his/her dog before they get the papers.I dont like to deal in started dogs because most of the duck blinds are set up where the dog cant see out anyway.Everyone is much happier is the retriever can do blind retrieves.These dogs are also deer blood trailers.
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goosebruce
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Theres a learning curve to dogs. Every one you have, is better than the last. If everyone started all this with a trained dog with solid basics, they blow that curve to hell and everyone would be happier.
Oh, and money isnt the biggest thing, unless you dont happen to have any. For a large % of people, time is a much bigger factor than money. And results & the experience would be bigger than money as well. if money was the biggest thing, nobody would ever pay 25 bucks for a steak you could cook yourself for 6 bucks.
To me, buying a trained dog first would make sense. Its hard to train, and have standards, when you dont know what dogs are supposed to do and can do to begin with. Lots of folks are just blown away when they can sit on their butt and dog picks up a bird outta the decoys. if its the best you've ever seen, why in the heck wouldnt you. if the dog is doing that, its hard to get motivated for anything more. You see it constatly on posts on the net that say, well my dog might not be such and such, but hes a helluva meat dog. Guess what, my trained dogs are meat dogs too... but they put mo meat on the table, and do it with a style and ease that is the bomb. If I was to give someone advice, id say if you got the money, buy a trained dog first, and find a training group. By your second dog, you'll be able to grasp whats going on. If the cheese was prohibtive, buy a puppy, and plan on 3-4 months with a pro for solid ob, collar condtioning, and force fetch.
A dog doing steady doubles, and running simple blinds to 100 yards (seasoned or senior test work), well bred, and under 2 years or so old, will go from 3-5k usually. Dog should be exposed to all elements of a hunt (boats, 4 wheelers, pit boxes, decoys etc), and I personally like to know HOW someone normally hunts so I can do a little custom work for their normal ways of hunting. A dog like this wont ness be on autopilot, but with a little time spent with the trainer, and a set of rules and commands, ought to be able to hunt with a minimumn of corrections. A dog like this will blow away 99% of the dogs out there hunting, and will be the best dog most have ever seen. A dog capable of doing finished/master test work, complicated triples, blinds with tons of factors, remote sits, and usually some hunting experience by this time, will easily double the money involved (now yur 6 to 10k). A dog like this will likely have hips and eyes cleared, and normally has a bloodline worth bragging about.
Anyone buying a dog these days Id advise to check refrences, and demand a current hartworm test. Hartworms are running rampant even on dogs getting their meds, and the last thing you want is to buy a new dog, and spend first 2 months of its life with you on lockdown. Hips and eyes possibly on an older dog (like the finished/master dogs I was refering too), normally these arent done till after 2 years old... so a medium level dog probably wont have them, nor should it be that big a concearn if the dog is reasonably well bred.
Anyone buying a dog as a breeding candiate with the ideal they'll make some of their money back is a fool, and someone I would refuse to do business with (and have). ive lost money before because i wouldnt sell a dog to a situation like that. But I know my dog went to the right place, she is loved, and if she is ever bred, it'll be because of the right reasons. Not because someone wanted a return on an investment. Dogs arent investments, investments dont have souls or tails that wag.
Everyone has a different defnetion of started, trained, and finished dog. make sure the person your speaking to has the same defintion you do. My ideal of a started dog would make a lot of people very happy. So a lot of times the nomenclature between levels of what a buyer and seller has is the reason for many people not getting what they wanted, or could afford. travis
Oh, and money isnt the biggest thing, unless you dont happen to have any. For a large % of people, time is a much bigger factor than money. And results & the experience would be bigger than money as well. if money was the biggest thing, nobody would ever pay 25 bucks for a steak you could cook yourself for 6 bucks.
To me, buying a trained dog first would make sense. Its hard to train, and have standards, when you dont know what dogs are supposed to do and can do to begin with. Lots of folks are just blown away when they can sit on their butt and dog picks up a bird outta the decoys. if its the best you've ever seen, why in the heck wouldnt you. if the dog is doing that, its hard to get motivated for anything more. You see it constatly on posts on the net that say, well my dog might not be such and such, but hes a helluva meat dog. Guess what, my trained dogs are meat dogs too... but they put mo meat on the table, and do it with a style and ease that is the bomb. If I was to give someone advice, id say if you got the money, buy a trained dog first, and find a training group. By your second dog, you'll be able to grasp whats going on. If the cheese was prohibtive, buy a puppy, and plan on 3-4 months with a pro for solid ob, collar condtioning, and force fetch.
A dog doing steady doubles, and running simple blinds to 100 yards (seasoned or senior test work), well bred, and under 2 years or so old, will go from 3-5k usually. Dog should be exposed to all elements of a hunt (boats, 4 wheelers, pit boxes, decoys etc), and I personally like to know HOW someone normally hunts so I can do a little custom work for their normal ways of hunting. A dog like this wont ness be on autopilot, but with a little time spent with the trainer, and a set of rules and commands, ought to be able to hunt with a minimumn of corrections. A dog like this will blow away 99% of the dogs out there hunting, and will be the best dog most have ever seen. A dog capable of doing finished/master test work, complicated triples, blinds with tons of factors, remote sits, and usually some hunting experience by this time, will easily double the money involved (now yur 6 to 10k). A dog like this will likely have hips and eyes cleared, and normally has a bloodline worth bragging about.
Anyone buying a dog these days Id advise to check refrences, and demand a current hartworm test. Hartworms are running rampant even on dogs getting their meds, and the last thing you want is to buy a new dog, and spend first 2 months of its life with you on lockdown. Hips and eyes possibly on an older dog (like the finished/master dogs I was refering too), normally these arent done till after 2 years old... so a medium level dog probably wont have them, nor should it be that big a concearn if the dog is reasonably well bred.
Anyone buying a dog as a breeding candiate with the ideal they'll make some of their money back is a fool, and someone I would refuse to do business with (and have). ive lost money before because i wouldnt sell a dog to a situation like that. But I know my dog went to the right place, she is loved, and if she is ever bred, it'll be because of the right reasons. Not because someone wanted a return on an investment. Dogs arent investments, investments dont have souls or tails that wag.
Everyone has a different defnetion of started, trained, and finished dog. make sure the person your speaking to has the same defintion you do. My ideal of a started dog would make a lot of people very happy. So a lot of times the nomenclature between levels of what a buyer and seller has is the reason for many people not getting what they wanted, or could afford. travis
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champcaller
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jtdumallard
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Champcaller, perhaps a person shouldn't assume that there will be many years with a working, hunting dog. Surely hope so!!! You didn't ask for this but my family is in shock NOW. My older son had 2 excellent males and their moma dog who was still adequate: in the past summer 1 male had a heat stroke, lived but had kidney damage, blinded in 1 eye, etc.
Late summer, sons wife goes outside with the other male at 6 am to allow him his a.m. constitutionals, he goes around to the back of the house and hasn't been seen since, back of house is south. This Sunday p.m. after dark son gets home from hunting drives under a light in back yard and starts cleaning duks; the mama dog that had been hunting with him jumped from back of the truk..drifted South to the end of him lot to a street. The "illegitimate child" who lived across the street shot her....she was in a straight line of view and shot from my son. She is getting better and will live.
My younger son, L Quacker, left his female at my house Sat. when he returned to KY. I am in the COUNTRY. I have neighbors 1/4 mi. closest
I let his dog and mine out to play etc. they always come to the door and bark to get back in. This is Wed. and nobody seems to have seen them.
Late summer, sons wife goes outside with the other male at 6 am to allow him his a.m. constitutionals, he goes around to the back of the house and hasn't been seen since, back of house is south. This Sunday p.m. after dark son gets home from hunting drives under a light in back yard and starts cleaning duks; the mama dog that had been hunting with him jumped from back of the truk..drifted South to the end of him lot to a street. The "illegitimate child" who lived across the street shot her....she was in a straight line of view and shot from my son. She is getting better and will live.
My younger son, L Quacker, left his female at my house Sat. when he returned to KY. I am in the COUNTRY. I have neighbors 1/4 mi. closest
I let his dog and mine out to play etc. they always come to the door and bark to get back in. This is Wed. and nobody seems to have seen them.
Except for EXTREME weather mine stays outside. The female had a litter of pups old enough to go to KY the day before and had been in welping box in a fenced area.
With three grown dogs the ones in town stay in a large fenced area.
A moment of lax judgement, poor decisions, etc. I appreciate your input.
We have these dogs since pups. Sons dog that was shot was the mama of his 2 males and the female that was here.
You are correct that more diligence is required. The dogs were being natural. When we had lots of bird dogs my dad in law told me "To train a dog, you have to know more than it does." That goes for taking care of them also. Don't help these dogs.
With three grown dogs the ones in town stay in a large fenced area.
A moment of lax judgement, poor decisions, etc. I appreciate your input.
We have these dogs since pups. Sons dog that was shot was the mama of his 2 males and the female that was here.
You are correct that more diligence is required. The dogs were being natural. When we had lots of bird dogs my dad in law told me "To train a dog, you have to know more than it does." That goes for taking care of them also. Don't help these dogs.
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champcaller
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jtdumallard wrote:champ hows your pup that you got from me? post some pics of him. did you hunt him any this year?
hes great. still a big baby tho hahaha but we love him to death. he thinks hes a lap dog
. i would post pics of him cause he turned out to be the most beautiful lab ive ever seen but i have no clue how too haha. but i didnt get a chance to hunt him this year cause we switched to public land this year and it would have been too hard. had we of been hunting our old place that we lost he would have seen a lot of hunt time. but hes doin great! i really need to figure out how to post pictures of himWho is online
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